Help. I really think I might be a terrible aunt

[keepittogethernowlisa]

Will try to keep this short(ish).
I live alone and I’m in a support bubble with my older sister’s family. My niece is 10, nephew 8, they come and stay with me all the time. Over the last two months I’ve seen them at least 3 times a week, 2 of those days will be in the week for homeschooling so full days.

I know homeschooling is tough on everyone but I find it especially tough. I don’t know if it’s just me.

My niece and nephew always seem to be badly behaved. Not really badly behaved as such but constant low-level naughtiness and disruption. They can’t sit for more than 15mins with throwing something or running around the room or going in my bedroom to open the wardrobe. They pull faces, say nonsense words, ask silly questions. Anything to provoke and get a reaction. I try and ask them questions and relate to them but it doesn’t work. At dinner they bicker with each other, refuse to eat things, put their food back into the serving plate. It feels like there is never a quiet moment to actually connect with the kids.

My sister doesn’t see it or pretends not to. She says this is just what having children is like. She will tell me stories of how the kids talk to her “for hours” . “Oh they are the sweetest kids”. They are not around me! I’ve never heard her have a conversation with them for longer than a few minutes, and it always ends with one of them saying something silly or being disruptive and her shouting. She says that’s how all children are. What, all the time?

I want to have kids some day but I wonder is this how it is? I’m struggling to see the positive side of it.

I have a few friends with young children and only see them on Zoom these days or in the park over the summer. They seem much calmer, able to hold conversations with the children. I went for a walk with a friend and her dd and the dd ran off to pick a flower, brought it back to show my friend and they had a ten minute conversation about it. We then kept walking. I’ve never seen my niece or nephew do that, ever. But I’m aware these are only snatched moments.

Give me some perspective. Am I a terrible aunt? What can I do to be better?

To an extent it all sounds pretty standard. You are definitely not a terrible aunt! I have kids the same sort of age and a lot sounds familiar. However, my kids will have long conversations with me, but generally only when they are on their own with me. Can you spend some one on one time with them, while the other is with your sister? Eg go for a walk, bike ride, make a cake etc You might see another side to them?

Are yoj home schooling them at yours? Why?

Sounds as though they have not been taught how to behave but that is not your responsibility. All children will sometimes ask silly questions etc and the 'why' phase is quite trying. However my 4yo can hold quite long, detailed conversations. If he steers into silly conversation we may allow a minute of it but then steer him onto sensible conversation.

The going in your wardrobe is completely unacceptable and they are old enough to know that. Also bad behaviour at the table should have been dealt with years ago (not by you though).

I wouldn't say that's normal foe an 8 and 10 year old. Kids can be disruptive but they just sound like little shits tbh.
You need to get firmer with them. Don't try to be the nice auntie that never gets angry. You spend a lot of time with them, so they need to know rules. Bet they don't behave like that in school.

That's not how mine are. But that's cos I wouldn't let them and I have a low irritation threshold. They have their moments, usually between 7-9 (like the baby witching hour), but I wouldn't accept the kind of behaviour you describe.

I think you're an amazing aunt to be so involved with your niece and nephew. Not many people would help out like you are!

That’s certainly not my experience of a 10 year old and 8 year old. Mine sit and do 1-1.5 hours work then get an hours break which involves playing quietly with Lego usually. We get lots of interruptions of how to spell x - standard response is either how do you think it’s spelt (usually correct) or look in your dictionary. We sit next to them but they just get on with it.
My niece aged 7 sounds like this, but she’s never had boundaries at home. She constantly pushes and whereas most people give in, me and DH don’t so she now behaves well for us. It’s took us a while to feel comfortable doing that though but it was impacting on our DC.

Mine arent like that, and as the above poster it is because I wont let them behave like that. Never have, they're now 7 and 9 and their childhood behaviour is pretty set. Obviously will be a whole different thing when they reach teen years but for now, that sort of behaviour just doesnt happen.

We homeschool and from 9 till 3 it is "school". Has been since the first lockdown and there isnt any back chat or nonsense.

There will be a load of people along in a minute saying that this sort if comment is untrue or just virtue signalling because its online, when really it is perfectly possible to have well behaved children if you parent them correctly

No, I wouldn't say that’s normal for an 8 and 10 year old. They have their moments, but not all the time.

It’s not abnormal for an 8 and 10 year old - but unusual for them to be like that constantly and they do sound at the extreme end of normal.

That said, my children (similar ages) are genuinely well behaved at home when it is just us, as a family, and we are relaxed. But they always (in pre covid times when such a thing was possible) behaved badly around my parents and sister. Not quite as extreme as you are describing but along the same sort of lines, just general silliness. It’s a combination of being excited and showing off around family, and responding to me being stressed. I am always stressed that my parents and sister are judging my parenting (my sister cannot have DC so it is all hypothetical for her, and my parents are lovely but are typical grandparents in that they can be judgemental of any kind of DC behaviour that isn’t respectful and perfect) and so the kids react to my stress and play up. They literally only behave like this around my family and I usually feel tearful after these visits. It’s such a relief in a way that we can’t see them at the moment.

Not excusing these kids’ behaviour at all but one reason could be that your sister feels a similar way to me and that the knock on effect on the kids is to play up. From the way you write I would guess that you make your incredulous feelings about their behaviour fairly clear and it all becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

Do you have to see them so often? It sounds as if it stresses you all out. I would step back a bit if I were you and cut the visits right down. It sounds as if none of you are enjoying the experience that much.

I would add too that mine behave beautifully when I am home schooling them too. My 11 yo is a dream, the 7yo needs coaxing but works well. But if my parents or sister were there they would play up.

@VioletCharlotte

I think you're an amazing aunt to be so involved with your niece and nephew. Not many people would help out like you are!

Very true, and if they want to continue like this and your sister doesn't acknowledge the problem then I would stop helping out, leave them to her.

You sound like a lovely want to be so involved.
They do sound quite naughty-their behaviour maybe typical for a 5-6 year old, but at 8 and 1 they should know better than to rummage in your things, and should be able to hold a conversation. Sounds like a parenting issue and your sister seems blind to their behaviour, but that isn’t your fault.

I think op that if your sister is not listening to you, or not taking the poor behaviour seriously, then I would seriously consider not helping out so much.

Could you say that you won't be available any more because you are fed up of the low level disruption, them invading your privacy by going in to your wardrobe, the silly comments and messing around etc. Call her bluff and tell your sister that you have been thinking things over, and you are unable to help with home schooling or feeding them because they will not settle to anything and are rude to you.

Just refuse to do it and then the onus is on your sister to either get them to behave or look after them herself. Say you want an apology too. If your sister wants a "serious" load of free childcare, then you are at liberty to attach some rules and conditions to it.

@Vthirtyone

To an extent it all sounds pretty standard. You are definitely not a terrible aunt! I have kids the same sort of age and a lot sounds familiar. However, my kids will have long conversations with me, but generally only when they are on their own with me. Can you spend some one on one time with them, while the other is with your sister? Eg go for a walk, bike ride, make a cake etc You might see another side to them?

it is sometimes a bit better one on one, usually with my niece. but i don't see them much like that. to be honest i don't like having only one because it bothers me even more when i can't communicate with them. She's 10!

@Themostwonderfultimeoftheyear

Sounds as though they have not been taught how to behave but that is not your responsibility. All children will sometimes ask silly questions etc and the 'why' phase is quite trying. However my 4yo can hold quite long, detailed conversations. If he steers into silly conversation we may allow a minute of it but then steer him onto sensible conversation.

The going in your wardrobe is completely unacceptable and they are old enough to know that. Also bad behaviour at the table should have been dealt with years ago (not by you though).

i have said this about table manners. DSis won't listen.

@Indecisive12

That’s certainly not my experience of a 10 year old and 8 year old. Mine sit and do 1-1.5 hours work then get an hours break which involves playing quietly with Lego usually. We get lots of interruptions of how to spell x - standard response is either how do you think it’s spelt (usually correct) or look in your dictionary. We sit next to them but they just get on with it. My niece aged 7 sounds like this, but she’s never had boundaries at home. She constantly pushes and whereas most people give in, me and DH don’t so she now behaves well for us. It’s took us a while to feel comfortable doing that though but it was impacting on our DC.

I believe you indecisive but this sounds like a fantasy to me! A whole hour! I try not to let them push boundaries but I'm not allowed to discipline them - never have been. So now they know that, they know all I can do is tell their mum at the end of the day.

You need to be very clear on what the rules are at your house. It could be their mum is strict and so they are seeing what you will allow. It could be the schoolwork is too easy or too difficult. It could be anxiety about what is a weird situation all round.

If there are areas of your house you don't want them in, you may have to lock the doors.

Although some pp are claiming home school is a breeze for them (lucky them!!), you'll find just as many people are finding it very difficult. Some DC can study well at these ages. A few even younger. Some are still struggling in secondary.

You're doing your sister a giant favour, so if stricter rules don't help plus maybe a bit of bribery (work well all morning and we'll make cakes/play football after lunch?) I'd offer to have one at a time. If you're doing it so she can work from home, one kid away and therefore not fighting with their sibling is at least a slight improvement.

And yes, parenting is like this for some of us I'm afraid!

You cannot take care of children all day that you can't tell off, reasonably, if they make a pain of themselves. That's ridiculous!

For the pp who asked why I home school them. I like helping out and being involved. I also want to know how to parent for my own kids. But this has made me so fearful of children. It feels never ending and joyless. Tell me I’m wrong!

What @WhereverIGoddamnLikewhereverIgoddamlike said sounds bliss. I have one friend like that and I always look up to her. I really think it’s possible.

Honestly, the things you described, they are behaving like toddlers. If all the kids were like this, all the time teachers would be actual zookeepers rather than just thinking we are
I'd establish boundaries at your house (rather than trying to teach them to do things all the time which is absolutely not your place). Teach them "in this house, we don't put food back on the plate" or "in this house you don't run around looking in private cupboards". Consistently remind them every time they do it. It's ok to do this. When you're responsible for them, you need to set boundaries for their own safety. Whether your sister is teaching them manners and things is largely nothing to do with you, but in your house, it's your rules, and they might just be running wild because no one is stopping them.

@keepittogethernowlisa if you can’t discipline them they don’t come. Simple as. Your house your rules. Same stands for my children’s friends and my children are aware of this. I’m not being disrespected and walked over in my own house. I know it’s difficult and I have another set of nieces and nephews who I’m not allowed to discipline so they don’t come without their parents, when they’re here certain rooms and items are off limits because they can’t be trusted with them. It sounds like I’m a nightmare I know but one of them broke a brand new TV by throwing something and it was laughed off by their Dad: I’m not having my home treated like that.

Sorry it turned into my own rant.

Not being able to discipline them would be a deal breaker for me. You're doing your sister a big favour - don't let her take the piss!

@FlyingPandas

It’s not abnormal for an 8 and 10 year old - but unusual for them to be like that constantly and they do sound at the extreme end of normal.

That said, my children (similar ages) are genuinely well behaved at home when it is just us, as a family, and we are relaxed. But they always (in pre covid times when such a thing was possible) behaved badly around my parents and sister. Not quite as extreme as you are describing but along the same sort of lines, just general silliness. It’s a combination of being excited and showing off around family, and responding to me being stressed. I am always stressed that my parents and sister are judging my parenting (my sister cannot have DC so it is all hypothetical for her, and my parents are lovely but are typical grandparents in that they can be judgemental of any kind of DC behaviour that isn’t respectful and perfect) and so the kids react to my stress and play up. They literally only behave like this around my family and I usually feel tearful after these visits. It’s such a relief in a way that we can’t see them at the moment.

Not excusing these kids’ behaviour at all but one reason could be that your sister feels a similar way to me and that the knock on effect on the kids is to play up. From the way you write I would guess that you make your incredulous feelings about their behaviour fairly clear and it all becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

Do you have to see them so often? It sounds as if it stresses you all out. I would step back a bit if I were you and cut the visits right down. It sounds as if none of you are enjoying the experience that much.

This is one of the things my Dsis says. I wish I could believe it. Even at her house I don't see it. Just major silliness over and over. If they are acting up because of me is there anything I can do?

why are you homeschooling them for your sister? Is she working the days you have them or is it just to give her a break?
I would have an open conversation with your sister and tell her how they act when they are at your house, i would also add that you are finding homeschooling and their attitude toward it hard and draining. she may be able to have a word with them about their behavior. If it doesn't improve after the chat I would tell her that its to stressful and you cant do it anymore, your mental health will end up suffering and it wasn't your choice to have two kids and its not your duty to help her either.