Moving on.... it's Biden/Harris Administration time (#124)

[Roussette]

Previous thread...

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4141906-For-there-is-always-light-Thread-123-is-belong-to-President-Biden?watched=1&msgid=103967923#103967923

This second man is wound up like a coiled spring. He is just furiously angry

@AskingQuestionsAllTheTime

PAULUS V *@PAULUSV3* · 6h BREAKING: President Trump requests use of Airforce One if forced to appear in Congress. "If they want to impeach me as President they'll have to let me travel as President."

Take him up on it! Call his bluff! He still won't dare show up, because he is frit: he knows what he did.

He could travel on the plane that is usually used by the President, but it still wouldn't be Air Force One. You'd think he would have known it after 4 years.

Senate begins vote

Lewis Goodall @lewis_goodall

NEW: Senate votes 56-44 to say that the Trump trial is constitutional.

Seems likely that will be the verdict outcome as well.

He continues

Or something like it

NB to those asking no that isn't enough to convict. Requires 2/3rds majority, so 67 votes.

56 yes 44 no

Picked up Senator Cassidy ( R) as additional vote yes.

The vote was really quick. I went for a wee and missed it

Did any GOP vote yay?

6

The six GOP voting yay are:

Bill Cassidy
Susan Collins
Lisa Murkowski
Mitt Romney
Ben Sasse
Pat Toomey

What happens next

Starting tomorrow at 1200EST (1700GMT), each side will have 16 hours to present their case.
Each side cannot exceed eight hours of presentation each day and cannot exceed two days of presentation overall.
After that, the Senate will have a total of four hours to question both sides.
If the prosecutors choose to call witnesses or request more documents, each side can then have four hours to make their case.
The two parties will then have a total of four hours to make their closing arguments.
Both Republicans and Democrats are keen on a speedy trial, US media report, so we could see a vote on conviction as early as this weekend if there are no witnesses to hear from.

(BBC live)

Thank you lionheart and NotARealLawyer

Is this why Lindsey Graham threatened to call the FBI & drag things out of witnesses were called?

Meanwhile, the worst President in history.

Seth Abramson @sethabramson

BREAKING (CNN): Two Sources Tell CNN That Trump Was "Unhappy" with the Defense His Attorneys Presented Today, Especially Bruce Castor Jr.

Please, I'm sorry to ask again, but can someone tell me, if this doesn't work, can he be arrested and charged with treason and insurrection (or whatever any other "private citizen" terrorist would be charged with after inciting a riot and deaths in the Capitol) in the criminal courts, and be put on trial and hopefully sent to prison that way? And as a supplementary question, if not, why not?

In simple terms yes it may be possible for Trump to be charged as a private citizen but it may depend if he was deemed to be acting in an official capacity or a private one.

www.wusa9.com/article/news/verify/do-former-presidents-have-immunity-or-can-they-be-prosecuted-if-a-president-leaves-office-can-he-be-charged-with-a-crime-explainer-fact-check/65-0ca56bc3-43c2-4bab-84ed-307bb4cae87c

@DuncinToffee

Seth Abramson *@sethabramson*

BREAKING (CNN): Two Sources Tell CNN That Trump Was "Unhappy" with the Defense His Attorneys Presented Today, Especially Bruce Castor Jr.

www.businessinsider.com/trump-was-borderline-screaming-over-impeachment-defense-lawyers-cnn-2021-2

Someone else is doing his job and not watching reality TV

www.businessinsider.com/biden-says-hes-not-watching-trumps-impeachment-trial-2021-2

The FBI is lining up RICO
Senators need to think VERY carefully

@DuncinToffee

He continues

Or something like it

NB to those asking no that isn't enough to convict. Requires 2/3rds majority, so 67 votes.

If all senators attend ....

Well, I did just go read the FBI's page on RICO, and this is what it says. So the hat might fit the organisers of Stop the Steal and the Q cult and their friends in high places...

The Bureau has found that even if key individuals in an organization are removed, the depth and financial strength of the organization often allow it to continue, so the FBI targets entire organizations responsible for a variety of criminal activities. The Bureau [uses] sustained, coordinated investigations and the criminal and civil provisions of the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (RICO).

Overview
Transnational organized crime (TOC) groups are self-perpetuating associations of individuals who operate, wholly or in part, by illegal means and irrespective of geography. They constantly seek to obtain power, influence, and monetary gains. There is no single structure under which TOC groups function—they vary from hierarchies to clans, networks, and cells, and may evolve into other structures. These groups are typically insular and protect their activities through corruption, violence, international commerce, complex communication mechanisms, and an organizational structure exploiting national boundaries.
www.fbi.gov/investigate/organized-crime

@ListeningQuietly

The FBI is lining up RICO Senators need to think VERY carefully

An interesting read from Reuters on this possible approach.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-capitol-rico-exclusive-idUSKBN2A32W2

I found this about RICO

Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (RICO)

Passed in 1970, the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (RICO) is a federal law designed to combat organized crime in the United States. It allows prosecution and civil penalties for racketeering activity performed as part of an ongoing criminal enterprise. Such activity may include illegal gambling, bribery, kidnapping, murder, money laundering, counterfeiting, embezzlement, drug trafficking, slavery, and a host of other unsavory business practices.

To convict a defendant under RICO, the government must prove that the defendant engaged in two or more instances of racketeering activity and that the defendant directly invested in, maintained an interest in, or participated in a criminal enterprise affecting interstate or foreign commerce. The law has been used to prosecute members of the mafia, the Hells Angels motorcycle gang, and Operation Rescue, an anti-abortion group, among many others.

www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/content/rico-act.html

RICO might well be where they land, given that Bruce Castor for Trump, helpfully argued at one point that: his client should be arrested and indicted, rather than impeached.

It's a fair cop guv.

@NotaRealLawyer

RICO might well be where they land, given that Bruce Castor for Trump, helpfully argued at one point that: his client should be arrested and indicted, rather than impeached.

It's a fair cop guv.

Also doesn't "conspiracy" have a quite loose meaning in the US ? Pretty certain I heard someone describe it as a "train to an illegal destination" with the analogy that once you board - anywhere on it's journey - you are bound up in it ...