Moving on.... it's Biden/Harris Administration time (#124)

[Roussette]

Previous thread...

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4141906-For-there-is-always-light-Thread-123-is-belong-to-President-Biden?watched=1&msgid=103967923#103967923

@PerkingFaintly

It's what Melissa Ryan said in this week's Control-Alt-Right-Delete newsletter: the Trumpies thought they would win. They didn't think they needed to cover their arses. They thought they would be in charge after 6 Jan.

Thankfully, they weren't very bright. It wasn't that hard to see that Mike Pence didn't have the authority to overturn the election and that McConnell wasn't going to support them.

Also, that joint letter from ten living former Defence Secretaries ensured that the army wouldn't back them.

After the recent show of cowardice, I am not holding out much hope of the Senators convicting Trump. I do, however, wonder what the FBI will do with all this new information? Will they literally close their eyes to prosecuting the ex-Defence Secretary and other politicians?

Hello CraftyYankee and you are welcome DrBlackbird.

Thank you for the links, and helping to join the dots.
Sobering reading.
I keep thinking about the poor souls on duty that day, and what happened to them. Hard to take in.

"Stole the election" my arse. The f*ckers didn't even vote.

They stormed the Capitol to overturn the results of an election they didn't vote in.
www.cnn.com/2021/02/01/us/capitol-rioters-non-voters-invs/index.html

One was Donovan Crowl, an ex-Marine who charged toward a Capitol entrance in paramilitary garb on January 6 as the Pro-Trump crowd chanted "who's our President?"

Federal authorities later identified Crowl, 50, as a member of a self-styled militia organization in his home state of Ohio and affiliated with the extremist group the Oath Keepers. His mother told CNN that he previously told her "they were going to overtake the government if they...tried to take Trump's presidency from him."
......
Despite these apparent pro-Trump views, a county election official in Ohio told CNN that he registered in 2013 but "never voted nor responded to any of our confirmation notices to keep him registered," so he was removed from the voter rolls at the end of 2020 and the state said he was not registered in Ohio. A county clerk in Illinois, where Crowl was once registered, also confirmed he was not an active voter anywhere in the state.

As far as Doofus' demand that his 'defence' be "I won" rather than the unconstitutionality of conviction after a POTUS has left office, the bottom line is he knows he could stand in front of the Senate and say "Yeah, I told them to riot. I told them to bring guns. I told them to hang Pence" and he would still be acquitted. The Repug Senators value their jobs above their duty to their Country.

Doofus wants to turn the trial into another bully pulpit for his false 'election fraud' bullshit. It's 'I could shoot someone on 5th Avenue" all over again.

In my long years on Earth I have only known one other person who seems to have the same 'bombproof' that Doofus has. She never, ever paid any conesequences for any of the shit she pulled or the harm she caused others. I haven't seen nor heard from her in over 20 years. I hope maybe all her dirt caught up with her. But I doubt it.

But I do wonder if Doofus will get away with it.
It might not be the punishment or end that we want, but I do think the name Trump has become toxic, he might well become an irrelevance as brighter men than he rise out the shit that the party is now.
Imagine being in his head with all that vile hate in there. I think it will all catch up with him in time to come

@lionheart

www.rawstory.com/donald-trump-twitter-2650231115/

'"Due to Twitter's banning of the @realDonaldTrump account following the Capitol riot that Trump instigated, he has not been able to personally trash Cheney via his once widely read tweets," the website reported. "He has written out insults and observations, several of them about Cheney, but with no ability to tweet them himself, he has resorted to suggesting put-downs for others to use or post to their own Twitter, according to a person with direct knowledge of this new habit."'

Marjorie Taylor Greene's tweets are getting increasingly Trumpian

The ship has already sailed, Mitch. Too little, too late.

Mitch McConnell says congresswoman's 'loony lies' are 'a cancer' for Republicans.
Senate minority leader didn’t name Marjorie Taylor Greene, but the remarks were clearly directed at the QAnon supporter.
www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/feb/01/mitch-mcconnell-conspiracy-theories-cancer-marjorie-taylor-greene?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

The colour of dying E.T.
Still not saying the unmentionable name, or having it written on the screen.

AcrossthePond55
the bottom line is he knows he could stand in front of the Senate and say "Yeah, I told them to riot. I told them to bring guns. I told them to hang Pence" and he would still be acquitted. The Repug Senators value their jobs above their duty to their Country.

You've summed it up really well. Its quite scary when you put it in these terms. But it is the reality.

You can't help but feel that if the powers that be had invested 1/1000th the effort they put into harassing John Lennon* towards Trump, we wouldn't be here.

*Or Martin Luther King.

And if MKUltra did exist - and was really about protecting the US - why not dust it down when it could be used ?

@minou123

AcrossthePond55 the bottom line is he knows he could stand in front of the Senate and say "Yeah, I told them to riot. I told them to bring guns. I told them to hang Pence" and he would still be acquitted. The Repug Senators value their jobs above their duty to their Country.

You've summed it up really well. Its quite scary when you put it in these terms. But it is the reality.

Yes. Unless they want to lure him into a false sense of security. But I doubt it. I expect nothing but acquittal.

Are we now allowed to say that some Trump supporters are being misled and lied to?

I'm not joking.

Back in 2016, whenever anyone said, "the Trump campaign are lying and deceiving people", we got told in no uncertain terms that we were sneering at them; that we were refusing to accept that someone could just think differently from us; that we must be elite, arrogant, and think ourselves better than the real people.

So it's a real question. Are we NOW allowed to say that Trump, Trumpie political enablers like Josh Hawley; and Trumpie media like Fox News (there's a clip on this or previous thread of a presenter egging on Trump's election denial when he phones in, suggesting more and more "investigations" long after the court cases had failed) are misleading and outright lying?

And that Trumpie followers are to some extent behaving as they are, because they being misled and lied to?

The reason I ask is that much of the 2016 Trump campaign rhetoric was a carbon-copy of the Brexit rhetoric. Even run by the many of the same people (Cambridge Analytica, the Mercers) and the orange one himself kept drawing the parallels.

And for Brexit too, you kept getting told that, if you pointed out lies in the leave campaigns, or said that voters were being misled, this meant you were elite, unable to accept other people think differently, and (this got repeated a lot) sneering at those being lied to.

I've noticed a certain reticence from the usual suspects since 6th January. So maybe we are now allowed to say that Trump and his enablers lie and mislead, and their trusting supporters have acted on their lies, and have killed and been killed on the basis of those lies.

But I noticed the Brexit one still rearing its head occasionally. Anyone who suggests that the leave campaigns' proven lies were, in fact, lies, and that that means voters were lied to, gets the same "you're sneering at the lied-to" line trotted out again.

(NB It's completely reasonable to say that we don't know how much effect the Brexit lies had on the election. But clearly the leave campaigns thought they would have an effect... or they wouldn't have bothered lying.)

IIRC, the main word Trump voters didn't like as applied to them was "deplorable".
People like to think of themselves as smart, and to be told that we are being deceived is to be told we are being fools. Of course, now, the lesser evil is to admit to being a fool, rather than to admit to wanting to be deceived because that was the message they wanted to hear.
People wanted the wall. Even Trump was surprised when that took off. People wanted the Muslim ban. People wanted less tax. People wanted a miracle health cover. Never stopped to think of the consequences and if it was possible or not, or of the implications. Never stopped to look at his track record, or bothered with it. People did want to overthrow democracy to keep Trump in power. Now they say they were deceived, but it was a choice they made. As the quote goes "You Can't Cheat an Honest Man".

www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/machiavellians-gulling-the-rubes/201802/you-cant-cheat-honest-person-or-can-you

Are we now allowed to say that some Trump supporters are being misled and lied to?

Are we now allowed to say that some Brexit supporters are being misled and lied to?

to be told that we are being deceived is to be told we are being fools.

Yes, that's a huge effect.

@PerkingFaintly

to be told that we are being deceived is to be told we are being fools.

Yes, that's a huge effect.

The slow emergence of Bregretful Daily Mail sadface stories is beginning to suggest there was a lot of truth in the idea.

Even the "deplorables" thing...

This is what Clinton actually said:

"You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump's supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. They're racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamophobic – you name it. And unfortunately, there are people like that. [...] Now, some of those folks – they are irredeemable, but thankfully, they are not America.

"But the 'other' basket – the other basket – and I know because I look at this crowd I see friends from all over America here: I see friends from Florida and Georgia and South Carolina and Texas and – as well as, you know, New York and California – but that "other" basket of people are people who feel the government has let them down, the economy has let them down, nobody cares about them, nobody worries about what happens to their lives and their futures; and they're just desperate for change. It doesn't really even matter where it comes from. They don't buy everything he says, but – he seems to hold out some hope that their lives will be different. They won't wake up and see their jobs disappear, lose a kid to heroin, feel like they're in a dead-end. Those are people we have to understand and empathize with as well."
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basket_of_deplorables

So any Trump supporter who felt they had been called "deplorable" was CHOOSING to place themselves in the deplorable basket (and Clinton was very specific about what she meant by deplorable), rather than the basket of those in search of hope. They made an active choice.

Well, either that or they were misled and lied to by the media they consume, and it concealing the rest of the speech from them...

Which is kinda where we came in.

Oh yes. I am a Remainer through and through and I work very hard at not tweeting a 'what did you expect? when I hear out and out Brexiteers start whinging about fish, Kent gardens overlooking lorry parks and portaloos etc etc. And the reason why I keep quiet is because amongst all these people and counties who voted to Leave, there are those who didn't and who are being saddled with this awful choice.

Likewise Republicans surely? There must be a lot who are absolutely horrified at the likes of Broebart and Green and Hawley.

As Lweji says... they were deceived, but they did make a choice. On Brexit, on Trump.

CHOOSING to place themselves in the deplorable basket

The common theme is a large number of people choosing to be ignorant. And that is despicable, and so are they. And they can't have it both ways. Either you are an averagely intelligent person and you averagely use your intelligence to learn. Or you are an averagely intelligent lazy person and you're happy to outsource the "thinking" to Farage, or Boris or Trump, or any other figure that allows you not to think for yourself.

Not knowing stuff doesn't make you stupid. Not bothering to find stuff out does. Especially when it's other peoples childrens lives that you are affecting.

And at the risk of invoking Godwin, when the number of people remaining deliberately ignorant reaches a certain mass ... we all know where it ends.

So agree with that DGR. The people who choose to be ignorant are letting everyone else do the work for them, they spout Fox News, Daily Fail over here... they don't open their minds.

@Roussette

So agree with that DGR. The people who choose to be ignorant are letting everyone else do the work for them, they spout Fox News, Daily Fail over here... they don't open their minds.

I wonder if it's connected to the "Let me Google that for you ?" phenomenon.

I'm pondering this now ... in my local FB group, someone has asked in the group "Who do I call to report my bin not collected ?"

(Putting aside the fact that DGRs modus operandi is to avoid the phone wherever possible, because at my age, every second is precious).

How difficult is it to Google that ? Or indeed just go to the Birmingham CC website to find out ? You fucking managed to use fucking face fucking book didn't you ?

Remember those numbuts that deleted the Parler app because some random on FB told them to ?

People are so incredibly lazy.

It never ceases to amaze me. Even on MN in places. Threads asking for advice when a ten minute session looking into it would answer all they need to know.

There are those who want everyone to hold their hand, they want others to think for them, because they are completely bone idle.