Moving on.... it's Biden/Harris Administration time (#124)

[Roussette]

Previous thread...

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4141906-For-there-is-always-light-Thread-123-is-belong-to-President-Biden?watched=1&msgid=103967923#103967923

Interesting discussion about laziness. My immediate thought that was asking on a forum / facebook removes responsibility for the decision ("Well Maureen on facebook told me it was blue bins this week"), whereas having to google and interpret search results places the burden of decision on the individual. Trivial when it's the bin collection, but the thin end of the wedge... more consequential when people start outsourcing their political thinking and let themselves be told how to think.

Well indeed, Rousette.

There will also, of course, be people who voted Leave for reasons unrelated to the assorted leave campaigns' lies. Fair enough – and I hope they're not the ones having the audacity to complain about Kent becoming a lorry park. They knew what might happen and took that risk.

@FGSWhatNow

Interesting discussion about laziness. My immediate thought that was asking on a forum / facebook removes responsibility for the decision ("Well Maureen on facebook told me it was blue bins this week"), whereas having to google and interpret search results places the burden of decision on the individual. Trivial when it's the bin collection, but the thin end of the wedge... more consequential when people start outsourcing their political thinking and let themselves be told how to think.

Which is all very well. But don't then get upset if some people (raises hand) place a little less value on what you think compared to someone who has done a little legwork.

There will also, of course, be people who voted Leave for reasons unrelated to the assorted leave campaigns' lies.

Well maybe. But I've never seen any evidence for them.

It may be that I am being really stupid here, but I really do not understand why the Republican Party and it’s representatives are, in the main, sticking with Trump. Donors have explicitly distanced themselves from the stolen election lie, and with every day that passes more emerges about the Jan 6 insurrection to show that Trump, his family and his appointees were in it up to their necks. I think there will be more to come on dodgy dealings, links to Epstein etc. I can’t believe that the family and the man will escape justice, so surely the GOP should be getting their house in order now, and censuring the Greens and the Boebarts, not the Cheney’s and McCains. I think a lot of Americans who got caught up in the Trump madness, would be glad to walk away from it now if they weren’t still getting mixed messages from the likes of McCarthy. If they don’t they will haemorrhage support from the nevertrumpers, and surely become an irrelevance?

It may be that I am being really stupid here, but I really do not understand why the Republican Party and it’s representatives are, in the main, sticking with Trump. Donors have explicitly distanced themselves from the stolen election lie, and with every day that passes more emerges about the Jan 6 insurrection to show that Trump, his family and his appointees were in it up to their necks.

Possibly they are trying to pump the "look ! We're being repressed" narrative for all it's worth.

Remember Brexit was sold as a load of cobblers about the "little man" against the establishment. It could be Trumpism tickles the same nerve ?

That's absolutely the nerve that Trumpism tickles.

Which is ironic given he's a hereditary millionaire who's treated the little guy like shit all his life (business model is not to pay suppliers in full), and who likes to party with the rich and famous, from the Epstein crowd to whoever he can get to Mar A Lago. Oh and he's backed by elite billionaires for whom the globe is their playground.

Nice move, huh?

AOC has been providing more details of her experience of the mob and how she had to take shelter with Katie Porter. Terrifying.

Listen to what Katie Porter has to say. This is so shocking and sad:

twitter.com/i/status/1356458365124280320

www.buzzfeednews.com/article/skbaer/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-capitol-attack?bftwnews&utm_term=4ldqpgc#4ldqpgc

@Zebracat

It may be that I am being really stupid here, but I really do not understand why the Republican Party and it’s representatives are, in the main, sticking with Trump. Donors have explicitly distanced themselves from the stolen election lie, and with every day that passes more emerges about the Jan 6 insurrection to show that Trump, his family and his appointees were in it up to their necks. I think there will be more to come on dodgy dealings, links to Epstein etc. I can’t believe that the family and the man will escape justice, so surely the GOP should be getting their house in order now, and censuring the Greens and the Boebarts, not the Cheney’s and McCains. I think a lot of Americans who got caught up in the Trump madness, would be glad to walk away from it now if they weren’t still getting mixed messages from the likes of McCarthy. If they don’t they will haemorrhage support from the nevertrumpers, and surely become an irrelevance?

Follow the money.

The Repugs are terrified of 1-losing donors (even the 'little guy') and 2- losing their elected offices (which directly relates to #1). No donors, no campaign funds.

They don't believe in Doofus and they don't believe there was election fraud. What they believe in is money and power AND retaining as much of both as they can. For whatever reason they think or know that Doofus retains enough of his 'fan base' and his finances to impact their ability to get and keep both. And because of that, they'll bow down, face Mar-a-Lago, and pray.

And that's what's really scary.

Caveat: Except Taylor-Greene. She's just a fucking nut job.

Totally agree Zebra. They could make a clean break from Doofus, wheel in someone more intelligent and charismatic and sweep up the ignorants who have been hanging on Trump's every word. He's toxic now and I just don't get it. There are bound to be those who are very uncomfortable with 6th jan and would jump ship from Trump if they could.
Dozens of former Bush officials have left the Republican party calling it 'The Trump Cult'

Here's a v interesting article about how a new Republican party could form. I just don't understand why it isn't happening but perhaps it is behind the scenes?

www.seattletimes.com/opinion/principle-over-power-lets-form-a-new-republican-party/

This from a career Republican...
It is amazing that establishment Republicans have tolerated Trump for this long. In addition to being a boorish misogynist and racist, he has also shown himself to be a dangerous demagogue. And on trade, immigration, foreign policy and fiscal responsibility, he took the party in a direction 180 degrees opposite of Reaganism.

The Republican party should have split at the 2016 convention. It should have split over the impeachment vote in 2020, and it should certainly split now that we know for a fact that Trumpism is an authoritarian movement and a danger to democracy itself.

In 1896, Henry Teller followed his conscience and split the Republican party over monetary policy and the future of the economy. Do today’s few remaining principled Republicans have the courage to do the same now when the issue is nothing less than the preservation of our constitutional republic?

Hmm is Lindsey Graham worried about something or just on glue?

Lindsey Graham has threatened to call in the FBI to testify about security failures during the Capitol riots last month if Democrats try to call even one witness at Donald Trump’s impeachment trial.

news.yahoo.com/amphtml/lindsey-graham-threatens-bring-fbi-061108415.html

My immediate feeling about Lindsey Graham's threat is "so do it". I doubt the FBI is going to testify that there was no incitement, is it?

I vaguely remember that Nancy, as Speaker, is ultimately responsible for security in the House. Does the same principle apply also to the Senate? Is this what LG is getting at?

Given what is emerging in dribs and drabs about colllusion between Capitol security/members and the insurrectionists, I think LG should be cautious about opening this particular can of worms.

That is what I am thinking, and it’s not like the FBI were taking orders from the Biden Administration.
Maybe this is Trump talking via Graham..

Yeah, I think the reply to Lindsey Graham is, "Will you make the phone call or shall I?"

Bear in mind that, in addition to having brass necks and a willingness to parrot mindless absurdities, any Repugs associated with the Capitol Hill attack have no option but to "retreat forwards". Their position is untenable and their only way out is to keep on going. So they will say and do absolutely anything. Sometimes it might make "sense", but that's by no means a requirement.

I am surprised that Graham thinks the FBI giving evidence is a Gotcha, really. He must know who did the inciting: it wasn't exactly private or secret, it was broadcast at the time and is all available on the media.

Ooh

House Judiciary Dems @housejudiciary

BREAKING: Impeachment Managers File Trial Brief, Explain Senate’s Obligation to Hear Case against Donald Trump

medium.com/housejudiciary/impeachment-managers-file-trial-brief-explain-senates-obligation-to-hear-case-against-donald-aa6e0d1e45aa

My immediate feeling about Lindsey Graham's threat is "so do it". I doubt the FBI is going to testify that there was no incitement, is it?

I suspect that isn't the point of the threat. Biden wants the focus to be on the pandemic and getting the vaccines out. Ideally, he wants the Republicans to be on board with this not fighting against him. He won't want a lengthy Senate trial.

That's the only way I can think of in which the threat makes any sense.

In Duncin's link... this...
There is no ‘January exception’to the Constitution that allows a President to organize a coup or incite an armed insurrection in his final weeks in office. The Senate must convict President Trump, who has already been impeached by the House of Representatives, and disqualify him from ever holding federal office again. We must protect the Republic from any future dangerous attacks he could level against our constitutional order.”

Says it all !

The whole thing is worth a read.

If you could do whatever you wanted in the way of insurrection and then if you didn't succeed in your aims resign from your federal post and face no penalty for anything you did while you held a federal position, it would be rather absurd. Or so I feel.

@AskingQuestionsAllTheTime

If you could do whatever you wanted in the way of insurrection and then if you didn't succeed in your aims resign from your federal post and face no penalty for anything you did while you held a federal position, it would be rather absurd. Or so I feel.

It means you'd just try harder next time.

Yes. With someone more intelligent than Doofus.

Let's hope Jan 6th doesn't turn out to be the US version of the Munich Beer Hall putsch.