Who would even know 400 people willing to break LD law?

[TheQueef]

Just saw it on the news.
Any of you could muster 400 people to break the law?
I could maybe get 20 out of everyone I've ever known, how do you even ask?
It was a school to boot! No teaching but come to school for a secret bash!

So...
YANBU no I couldn't gather a big group of rule breakers.
YABU I could easily get that many, everyone is at it.

A friend of ours is getting married, and allowed under the current rules as their partner is terminally ill. Due to distance and all the other rules they can't have family to attend. It make an already heartbreaking situation even more heartbreaking.

So sick that that these 400 people think they can flout the rules

[quote trulydelicious]@RedToothBrush

They have no or little access to media and are exceptionally naive and unaware of the wider world or anything going on in it

I'm sorry, but I don't believe this for A SECOND

Are you suggesting they don't watch TV, don't read newspapers, don't look at billboards at bus stops or have access to the internet? I don't think so

This is condemnable behaviour whichever group/religion it came from, sorry.[/quote]
I find this community fascinating.

Owning a TV, smart phone or internet access is hugely frowned upon.
The community tends to live within walking distance of each other - makes it easier to observe the sabbath. With restricted contraception nuclear families are often 8+, a generation or two of this and a 400 person wedding is a small one.

It wouldn’t surprise me if they are barely aware of Covid.

Name escapes me but a show on Netflix shows how very insular this community is.

The real disgrace is that over 390 of them have got away with it. Shameful

Completely agree. They need to track down and fine every single person who attended.

@TheQueef

Either they've got lightening reflex or they knew it was illegal and fucking scattered

Let's not blame the police now. Those who are to blame are the ones attending, not a few policemen for not being able to go after 400 people fast enough!

@Xenia why is a religious wedding more important than a civil one? If civil weddings cant take place except for very exceptional circumstances why should a religious wedding be permitted?

If the lockdown is still in place will you be abiding by the rules?

[quote trulydelicious]@DeRigueurMortis

I think you need to do some research into ultra orthodox communities

Still don't buy it, sorry (from any community)[/quote]
So you'd rather continue to post in ignorance rather than do a bit of research?

Just because you don't believe something doesn't make it true.

You might want to read this:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/26/how-a-haredi-community-in-london-is-coping-with-coronavirus-photo-essay?CMP=ShareiOSAppp_Other

Anyone throwing a wedding/party/rave/gathering like this regardless of religion or race or whatever is disgusting.

It's a real slap in the face to the majority of people doing the best they can to live under lockdown.

I honestly think God would not be amused, I wouldn't be surprised if God was downright furious as it says in The Torah 'Love Thy Neighbour'.
Also you could say that every single wedding guest/participant is technically breaking the Commandment of 'Thous shalt not kill/murder' with their actions.
Even more so with that fact that Covid is disproportionately affecting the BAME community compared to the general UK population.

@Phoenix21

I find this community fascinating

Leaving fascination aside, I find it loopy that in this day and age grown up people think nothing of not being properly informed of the law knowing that they can break it at any time (specially during a pandemic).

And if they break the law, there should be consequences. No exceptions

My dd got married in December. Her only sibling couldn’t attend because of ld laws.
These people should be fined a lot more than £200.00 each for just the 5 organisers.

[quote trulydelicious]@RedToothBrush

They have no or little access to media and are exceptionally naive and unaware of the wider world or anything going on in it

I'm sorry, but I don't believe this for A SECOND

Are you suggesting they don't watch TV, don't read newspapers, don't look at billboards at bus stops or have access to the internet? I don't think so

This is condemnable behaviour whichever group/religion it came from, sorry.[/quote]
Red is actually correct. There are some documentaries on Netflix and many books about it. The majority of adults are not allowed to own Internet connected mobile phones. Reading mainstream media such as newspapers is not allowed. The books available are to their children are all heavily curated to ensure no unorthodox ideas are introduced to them.

Haven't read the whole thread but if they live such insular lives with no TV, Internet etc then why would they think having a wedding was illegal. Wouldn't they have questioned the police instead of running from them. Asking what they were doing at a perfectly legal gathering?

Every single selfish bastard present should be fined £1000 minimum, and the organisers much more

Most families are very poor and have multiple children and you can issue any fine you like, it a)won't be paid and b)will not have the consequences you think.

What's striking about many responses in this thread is that many pp are appalled and shocked by the ignorance of the members of this community regarding covid and the law, but are entirely ignorant themselves about how that community works and why and how most members of it will be so misinformed regarding covid and the law- and why those senior members of the community who will indeed know the risks and the law will still find obeying their interpretation of god's law far more important.

The chief rabbi has spoken out against this. twitter.com/chiefrabbi/status/1352591784698916864?s=19

The school have also released a statement (pic)

As a Jew I'm utterly mortified and embarrassed by the actions of these people, and my phone has been going non stop with others who feel the same and who very strongly condemn the actions of these people. I felt absolutely sick when I saw the news.

“Rabbi Mirvis, who serves as the head of the UK's orthodox Jewish community but is not the leader of the Charedi sect, called the wedding party "a most shameful desecration of all that we hold dear".”
From the news article, so not all members of the Jewish community think they are above the law, but this is not going to improve relations between the Jewsih community and the rest of the population.

I am against the mandatory covid 19 rules

Why @Xenia? What would you propose instead?

I happily condemn those who broke the rules for Eid, Christmas or any other celebration. This is not a race or religious issue

I agree. I think some of us have been rather hypocritical over Christmas (it was easy for us to comply as we live nowhere near family, so it was just the three of us as per usual)

@RedToothBrush I have come across Christian Brethren through school and work. They are very sheltered and not allowed access to any kind of media at all. They are a very closed community

I'm sorry, but I don't believe this for A SECOND

Are you suggesting they don't watch TV, don't read newspapers, don't look at billboards at bus stops or have access to the internet? I don't think so

Believe me, it really is true about the Brethren community @trulydelicious. I used to deal with a few in a professional capacity. Back in the day the only modern method of communication they were allowed to use was the telephone. They wouldn’t even have a fax machine. They don’t believe in TV, radio, computers, smartphones, the internet, credit cards, anything with bar codes on. They believe that there are messages from the devil in them. It sounds bonkers, but it is true. Also, the men won’t wear ties and they won’t break bread with anyone outside of their religion. I am not making this up.

If you scroll half way don on this link there is a list of what Brethren can’t do

www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/christianity/subdivisions/exclusivebrethren_1.shtml

Can I suggest that you watch Unorthodox if you have Netflix. It is based on an autobiography by an Hasidic Jewish woman. It is an eye opener.

Derigeurmortis I've read the article. The words 'University College Hospital' appear in the first sentence. The community mentioned isn't so disengaged from the world that they don't know NHS services exist or refuse to use them. Clearly they are very community minded, which is admirable. But ignorance of the law is no defence. And quite honestly, there is no-one who can fail to know we're living through a pandemic. They have a responsibility to follow the same rules as everyone else.

I'd struggle getting 4 people!

@trulydelicious These sorts of communities have long believed that they govern themselves, they have their own laws, their own police, their own schools, their own ambulance service.

I get that this is hard to understand but just because you "don't buy it" when it comes to how this area works doesn't mean it is untrue.

[quote trulydelicious]@RedToothBrush

They have no or little access to media and are exceptionally naive and unaware of the wider world or anything going on in it

I'm sorry, but I don't believe this for A SECOND

Are you suggesting they don't watch TV, don't read newspapers, don't look at billboards at bus stops or have access to the internet? I don't think so

This is condemnable behaviour whichever group/religion it came from, sorry.[/quote]
Yes there ARE groups in this country who are like this.

Its insane but yes they DO exist.

PixellatedPixie
Unfortunately for them, ignorance of the law is no excuse. I hope every single person present is tracked down and heavily fined.

@ZoBo123

Haven't read the whole thread but if they live such insular lives with no TV, Internet etc then why would they think having a wedding was illegal. Wouldn't they have questioned the police instead of running from them. Asking what they were doing at a perfectly legal gathering?

The community is extremely suspicious of outsiders, it’s unlikely they would question the police, rather leave and let their own police liaise with the met.

Ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law but it doesn’t change that many either won’t know what the law is, only what their leaders have told them.

Should have added, and anyway how ignorant of the law were they, if they covered up windows to prevent onlookers, and ran away when police arrived?

I dont think I am on speaking terms with 400 people. This is what happened to the popular kid at school. It's better to be anti social.

but they did know otherwise why would they have all run out when the police came-if they had no idea they would ask what was wrong

Are people on mumsnet really trying to suggest these idiots didnt know the seriousness of covid?

I mean come on

it is worth noting that Jewish weddings in the UK are legally binding.

Surely it still has to be properly registered to be legal under English law, which can't happen at the moment.