Who would even know 400 people willing to break LD law?

[TheQueef]

Just saw it on the news.
Any of you could muster 400 people to break the law?
I could maybe get 20 out of everyone I've ever known, how do you even ask?
It was a school to boot! No teaching but come to school for a secret bash!

So...
YANBU no I couldn't gather a big group of rule breakers.
YABU I could easily get that many, everyone is at it.

[Brendabigbaps]

I’m still stuck on how the school hired the hall out but didn’t realise what it was for!
Err how do you rent out a school hall without knowing it’s for more than 6 people!

[Spidey66]

I work as a community nurse in the area. The orthodox Jewish community there are extremely tight knit. Most of them probably dont know the b&g but will be invited by frends of friends.

Many of the children in the community attend private Jewish schools. My husband gave me a lift to work a couple of weeks back after lockdown v.3.0 and the school closures were snack on track. There was lots of orthodox children going to school-far to many to be explained by keyworkers or vulnerable children.

[lljkk]

"While officers said they found about 400 people at the event, a security guard at the school told the BBC there were more like 100 guests at the party."

how would the security guard know... why such a difference. Weird.

My wedding had 100 or so people. And few of them would have turned up in these times.

[DeRigueurMortis]

@murbblurb

they know the rules - the 'rank and file' may be barred from newspapers/internet etc but the community leaders will know, hence the covered windows.

The Charedis are an extreme Jewish sect - certainly no contraception so the women just birth and birth, hence the large families. (I know someone who married into this lot, she had 11 kids). Like other extremist religious groups, they ignore all science and sense. It is an abusive cult and extremely difficult to escape.

sadly this will only fuel more antisemitism, not that it needs fuelling.

as for religious freedom - complain to your god who is presumably in charge of all this, and so must want you to risk death or serious illness for your ceremony.

Perhaps they knew the rules or maybe they were targeted with mid-information.

I don't know.

What I do know however is how many posters on here were condemning the celebrations for Eid and the gatherings that took place then.

Then the numerous posters stating they were going to have Christmas "their way" with "their family" and ignore the rules and coming under very little criticism.

I wonder how many of those people will post here in shock and outrage?

Happy for the rules to be broken for a significant cultural event of theirs whilst condoning others doing it for theirs?

[Spidey66]

Snack on track? Back on track!

[LizFlowers]

Nor me but people come from far and wide for these weddings which are extremely lavish. It was very wrong.

Stamford Hill is part of the borough of Hackney, which has a Covid-19 infection rate of 625.43 cases per 100,000 people. The England average rate is 471.31 per 100,000 people.

[viques]

@lljkk

"While officers said they found about 400 people at the event, a security guard at the school told the BBC there were more like 100 guests at the party."

how would the security guard know... why such a difference. Weird.

My wedding had 100 or so people. And few of them would have turned up in these times.

There is a video of police walking down the street on the DM (sorry) , presumably they are going to the school. There are about 20 police so why they only managed to stop and fine 5 people is a mystery to me. Surely all you need to do is close the school gates and wait........

[Pimlicojo]

Derigeurmortis I happily condemn those who broke the rules for Eid, Christmas or any other celebration. This is not a race or religious issue. These people are selfish fuckers who think the rules don't apply to them. There is no way they cannot claim to know the law the same as everyone else.

The real disgrace is that over 390 of them have got away with it. Shameful.

[RedToothBrush]

Do you not think that deliberately misleading your community for religious reasons is troubling?

Brenda, did you note that the school has previously been hired out for similar types of events (which are illegal).

It seems the whole community is getting very different messages from people in trusted positions which has been reinforced by previous events going unchallenged, leading them to believe it was ok and normal to go ahead with large events like this.

Its tragic.

Unless you have ever come across anyone from one of these type of religious groups its really hard to comprehend how this can happen.

I've had contact with the Brethen (Christians) in Stockport previously through work. The hierachical structure of the community means that many (particularly women and young people) are powerless and not allowed to challenge or question authority in the community at all. They have no or little access to media and are exceptionally naive and unaware of the wider world or anything going on in it (to a degree which is hard to wrap your head around).

So if the leaders are saying it is ok to attend a wedding, it may be near to impossible for them to act to the contrary because they have been conditioned so much to simply obey. To challenge is to risk being expelled or shunned within the community.

Its simply not like 'normal' life and how we understand the world. It is incredibly alien to the average citizen.

[Emeraldshamrock]

Absolutely crazy. Why would you risk it will we ever be out of this mess.

[DeRigueurMortis]

@Pimlicojo

Derigeurmortis I happily condemn those who broke the rules for Eid, Christmas or any other celebration. This is not a race or religious issue. These people are selfish fuckers who think the rules don't apply to them. There is no way they cannot claim to know the law the same as everyone else.

The real disgrace is that over 390 of them have got away with it. Shameful.

I'm happy to condemn them all too.

Myself and all my wider family have followed the rules to the letter.

All I'm pointing out is there is a sub set of posters on MN (not necessarily this thread) who were very open about breaking the rules for Christmas and that there are people who have the mindset that "their" key cultural events should be exempt from the rules.

So no, it's not a race issue. It's a mindset issue where some people believe their traditions (whatever they are) are more important than preventing transmission.

[MsHedgehog]

Do you not think that deliberately misleading your community for religious reasons is troubling?

I misunderstood what you meant by sinister. Thought you were implying it was some form of anti-semitic propaganda. My mistake.

I grew up in NW London, so know a lot about the Hasidic community - it is very much cut off from the outside, so responsibility does lie with its leaders for allowing this to happen. However, they do also live by their own rules (even in Israel), and the issue of large gatherings and weddings in the Hasidic community has been a problem worldwide, including in New York and Israel, throughout the entire pandemic, so I find it really hard to believe that, by now, the party goers thought they were allowed.

[trulydelicious]

@RedToothBrush

They have no or little access to media and are exceptionally naive and unaware of the wider world or anything going on in it

I'm sorry, but I don't believe this for A SECOND

Are you suggesting they don't watch TV, don't read newspapers, don't look at billboards at bus stops or have access to the internet? I don't think so

This is condemnable behaviour whichever group/religion it came from, sorry.

[DeRigueurMortis]

And sorry just to add as I cross posted with RTB there is absolutely very troubling evidence that the leadership of some communities are encouraging these behaviours and it's they who should be called to account.

As RTB rightly points out, the ability of some people (typically women) within these communities to "defy" the leadership or even have access to information outside it is very minimal indeed.

[XelaM]

My ex-husband's family have been Covid-deniers and had large gatherings for New Years Eve (very big extended family albeit less than 400 people). They all ended up catching Covid and passing it to each other (even to a baby!). Some family members became very ill and one was very close to death, hospitalised and on oxygen. The member of the family who nearly died was only 40 and had no underlying conditions.

Covid is real and people need to take it seriously.

[movingonup20]

I don't have 400 friends for a wedding full stop (between us) including inviting all of my church, work colleagues etc. 400 is a lot even taking aside the pandemic angle. Just wish some groups (not aimed at any religion, age group or occupation, and yes I mean those Met police officers) wouldn't think they were above the law!

[Higgeldypiggeldy35]

What makes this even more galling than the teenagers hosting parties is the hipocracy of religious people. In most religions you are taught to look after your community and be self less (I am completely ignorant of the teachings in the Jewish faith but I'm sure it's the same). This wedding is the exact opposite. They should be so ashamed.

[dadshere]

I could probably manage 4

[MsHedgehog]

@trulydelicious

Yes, really. They don't have TVs, they don't have access to the internet, their books and newspapers will be those produced by their own community.

However, whilst they only mix with their own community, they have community leaders who would be updating them, will be going outside and seeing signs and posters, and will be aware of what's going on by those who do have secret internet, interact with those outside the community, etc.

[DeRigueurMortis]

[quote trulydelicious]@RedToothBrush

They have no or little access to media and are exceptionally naive and unaware of the wider world or anything going on in it

I'm sorry, but I don't believe this for A SECOND

Are you suggesting they don't watch TV, don't read newspapers, don't look at billboards at bus stops or have access to the internet? I don't think so

This is condemnable behaviour whichever group/religion it came from, sorry.[/quote]

I think you need to do some research into ultra orthodox communities....

You might not believe it simply because you are uninformed, not because it is untrue.

[HyacynthBucket]

A lot of posters on here seem to be missing the point. It is not about how many people we could muster for a wedding, but the fact that 400 people DID go to a wedding. I am absolutely livid about this. Every single selfish bastard present should be fined £1000 minimum, and the organisers much more. As for the rabbi or whoever authorised it, how can they live with themselves? Selfish, selfish, selfish people, after all the sacrifices others have made, and all the heroic work going on in hospitals by exhausted, stressed staff who put themselves at risk for us eveyday. When some of these selfish bastards inevitably end up in hospital with covid, will it occur to them that the bed they are occupying is preventing someone else getting treated? Or that they are putting the staff at even more risk while accepting treatment from them. I despair. It would not be ethical but if they now get covid, it is tempting to want to put them to the back of the queue for treatment.
pimlicojo Agree with every word you have put here.

[trulydelicious]

@DeRigueurMortis

the ability of some people (typically women) within these communities to "defy" the leadership or even have access to information outside it is very minimal indeed

You can't plead ignorance in order to break the law. If you are living somewhere, everyone must abide by the law. No excuses

[Pimlicojo]

If they don't mix how do they support themselves? Surely not everyone can have an independent income. If not, they are either working, in which case they'd be paying tax and therefore engaged with the world, or claiming benefits, in which case they are also engaged with the system. I don't buy religious excuses, and there is no way that 400 people can claim they have no idea of the rules. Too convenient.

Meanwhile my small DGC has a birthday this weekend and I can't even go and have a slice of cake with them. It's outrageous.

[trulydelicious]

@DeRigueurMortis

I think you need to do some research into ultra orthodox communities

Still don't buy it, sorry (from any community)

[TheQueef]

390 evaded arrest.
Either they've got lightening reflex or they knew it was illegal and fucking scattered.

I'm picturing the average age at weddings I attend, at least 50% are older or less mobile guests. More still wouldn't dream of running from the cops.
They wouldn't starburst automatically.