When do we teach daughters to fight back?

[Jimbellselmbath]

Dd has been in trouble in school for "fighting"
She is 12 and a little skinny thing.
The other side was a boy, a school year older, taller and bigger, she said he has already turned 14. So nearer 2 years older.
He has history for attacking girls back to primary but his parents are very vocal and protective and their boy is an angel.
DD got the better of him in the "fight"
Dd said he started it and she finished it like we had always told her to do.
None of the above was disputed by either side.
DD was placed in isolation for a week although lockdown happened so she did 2 days. The boy got nothing although he was in school.
What has really riled me is the teacher was so bothered about her retaliating, that was the source of her punishment.
Having had time to think about it I am not happy.
So dd shouldn't retaliate? Should she do so when she's older?
If an older boy kicks her in the fanny on the bus, should she wait until the next day to report at school? What if he's not from the school? What about an adult? Should she sit quietly and take his abuse? At what age can a girl fight back? I want to go to his house but dd would die of shame
I have no faith in the school

Hazelnut I agree in part- using humour and positivity certainly prevents conflicts from escalating. However, I think women should be able to defend themselves physically as well. This boy has attacked her dd twice- if she had appeased him it would probably be three times by now. One beating and she has stopped him forever. According to the OP he’s had a pattern of attacking girls and no punishment he has received to date have deterred him.

Sounds like in an incredibly stressful situation your daughter's fight or flight reaction kicked in, and whilst some people may be of the opinion that fighting rather than walking away, causing a distraction etc is not the best route, it's not always easy to think that way when in that situation.

I really don't think your daughter should have been given a considerably worse punishment for her response to an attack, and a hearty fair play to her for getting the better of the twat that went for her. I hope she's ok x

@EmilyInParis

Anyone else wondering why if this happened during a fire drill, where I presume the entire school were then outside, how this didn't also draw the attention of all of the pupils who I am sure would've loved the opportunity to form a large circle and watch a 12 yr old "skinny little thing" deck a 14yr old?

Come on now.

It's load of rubbish from start to finish. How is anyone falling for this bullshit?

Did the kid strike with no provocation at all or maybe he was the one being persecuted by OP's daughter, teased and bullied and he was retaliating in the first place.

This is a possibility (one of many, of course). He might have finally snapped and booted her after being bullied or he might've been the bully and the DD finally snapped.

This is why I think the OP should be careful about jumping straight to police and find out exactly what happened from the school first.

I'm willing to believe that there was an altercation between DD and this boy.

Other than that, everything's being filtered through DD's mother's viewpoint which will obviously be biased in her daughter's favour.

Sounds like there's an awful lot of exaggeration and extrapolation.

Probably only the two parties involved in the fight know exactly what happened.
And any teacher(s) who witnessed it and arranged any penalties for both of them.

@BettyAndVeronica

He kicked her in the vagina? I would escalate this and threaten to involve the police, given he (sexually??) adulated her.

You are right to question why she is punished for defending her self and he is allowed to get away with it.

I think this is what i would do also . I have told my 2 boys never start trouble , but you are justified in defending yourself if needed, the same applies to my daughter , she is very sensible and i am quite sure she would never cause any trouble . What she does know is that i would have her back every time if she had to defend herself , particularly if this was a sexual assault . Good that your girl got the better of him , but he should be punished by school.

@Jimbellselmbath

Sorry for the phrasing, I am not English and we are based in Liverpool. That is what we call the area, fanny, genitals, whatever, you know what I mean

Nothing at all wrong with calling it 'fanny'.

Please go to the Police OP.
One of our DSs was assaulted on the school bus home and had to have stitches in his head.
The reason? Because he is gay.
School were useless and said it was "His word against the others" as the CCTV on the bus wasn't operational.
We went to the Police, who were amazing. So reassuring to our son and they charged the other kid with assault.

Fight back. Accept the schools punishment but tell her she's 100% right to defend herself and all girls she be told this then give the school hell for not reprimanding the boy and suggest self defense classes to be promoted post covid for young girls. Im not knowledgeable but is there someone you can speak to as the boy keeps attacking girls. Can the police be involved or is he too young?

@Serin

Please go to the Police OP. One of our DSs was assaulted on the school bus home and had to have stitches in his head. The reason? Because he is gay. School were useless and said it was "His word against the others" as the CCTV on the bus wasn't operational. We went to the Police, who were amazing. So reassuring to our son and they charged the other kid with assault.

OPs Daughter would be charged with assault

Sorry about your son

And to correct my post. All girls not just young girls.

she had appeased him it would probably be three times by now. One beating and she has stopped him forever*
What makes you so sure? What if he obessive tendencies and decides to go after her?
According to the OP he’s had a pattern of attacking girls and no punishment he has received to date have deterred him
Exactly there is nothing to say this will deter him.
If he has a pattern of attacking girls in school wouldn't he be expelled?
More holes than Swiss cheese.

Imagine hearing that a 14 year old male kicked a 12 year old girl in the fanny and your first reaction is to be appalled by the words "kicked in the fanny"

@BilboBercow

Imagine hearing that a 14 year old male kicked a 12 year old girl in the fanny and your first reaction is to be appalled by the words "kicked in the fanny"

Have you read the full thread?

There is a big difference between defending yourself and fighting back

Your daughter was in a fight and was rightfully punished for it.

Nothing at all wrong with calling it 'fanny'
In your opinion.
Fortunately we don't all agree with you.

@youvegottenminuteslynn Really? Her daughter is assaulted by a male kicking her in her genital area and you take offence over the "fanny"? Grow the fuck up and have a word with yourself

Why are we all jumping on @youvegottenminuteslynn post? I think she gets it. Or telling OP to go to the police.
The thread has moved on substantially since the....

Today 15:14BilboBercow

Imagine hearing that a 14 year old male kicked a 12 year old girl in the fanny and your first reaction is to be appalled by the words "kicked in the fanny
(Yeah just imagine reading that and believing it all word for word.

Like someone said, the whole tale has more holes than Swiss cheese.

@mymadpuppy

Today 15:14BilboBercow

Imagine hearing that a 14 year old male kicked a 12 year old girl in the fanny and your first reaction is to be appalled by the words "kicked in the fanny
(Yeah just imagine reading that and believing it all word for word.

Like someone said, the whole tale has more holes than Swiss cheese.

Quite.

Not only should girls defend themselves everyone should have the right to defend themselves and this is what I will teach my son- never bully, never start a fight but if they start a fight, you better take that person out. I would have called the police and escalated it tbh as it's an assault, she got kicked in the genitals?

@mymadpuppy

Nothing at all wrong with calling it 'fanny' In your opinion. Fortunately we don't all agree with you.

Phew, yes, that is fortunate. Or we'll all be off to hell in a handcart.

She punched him in the chest, kicked him in the balls, punched him in the face, knocking him down then while he was on the floor, she jumped on top of him and punched him repeatedly in his face

Your dd didn't learn this is any self defence or martial arts class.

It sounds like your daughter got the punishment from the school that she deserved after acting so disproportionately.

If she was an adult 'but he kicked me first' wouldn't save her from prosecution for going on the attack so viciously, regardless of her initially being the aggrieved.

@LadyDique

She punched him in the chest, kicked him in the balls, punched him in the face, knocking him down then while he was on the floor, she jumped on top of him and punched him repeatedly in his face

Your dd didn't learn this is any self defence or martial arts class.

It sounds like your daughter got the punishment from the school that she deserved after acting so disproportionately.

If she was an adult 'but he kicked me first' wouldn't save her from prosecution for going on the attack so viciously, regardless of her initially being the aggrieved.

Quite.

And before anyone starts up again, that goes for men too! It's called reasonable use of force....

kids arent trained fighters. Theyre not trained to keep their cool.
If a girl is attacked and then "overreacts" then maybe that attacker will think twice next time.
Picking fights with people is a dangerous game.