What pronoun would you use?

[Learningtobehappier]

Heres the back story.

I was with my EXH for 5 years, left because of DV over 5 years ago with our child, theres zero contact, doesn't know where we live, we've been in refuge previously.

EXH is currently being investigated for Child Sex offences and i should find out soon if he will be charged (theres pretty good evidence).

I am a witness, have provided a statement and would go to court.

EXH now identifies as a female.

I'll obviously ask if the time comes, but in court which pronoun would you use? At the time when everything happened they were male, so it would come naturally to say "he then did this" but I wouldn't want to look bad for using him/he. But at the same time, it would feel really wrong for me to say "then she did this" when at the time they were male.

I thought about using they/their but then I need to be specific that there was only EXH there and that no one else was there, or that there was someone else there but only EXH did something etc.

So what would you use? What would I be expected to use?

absolutely not a transgender bashing thread

@Learningtobehappier

There's options here i wouldn't have thought of so thats very useful. I think "my ex husband" is good, as well as "the accused" or even the surname. I really can't bring myself to use she/her or the new name. I went through 5 years of violent sexual abuse and DV. I was only 17 when he was 46.

Thank you all, its been a really difficult time and im just hoping he gets charged, but terrified of even being in the same building let alone speaking out against EXH.

Oh that’s horrific. You were still a child. Your ex was a man when this happened, so use his name and pronouns he/him.

He is a man, so should be referred to accordingly. Anything else is nonsense.

cherrypie

You express not one shred of empathy or compassion forces the OP.

But you bother to say:

MN is highly transphobic as a whole, and don't even get me started on the 'feminism' board

You’re no friend to women, eh?

*towards not forces 🙄

I’d call him he or by name. That was what he was at the time. What he refers to himself as now is his issue, but you’re referring to a time he was a he.

Firstly I’m sorry this has happened.

Secondly, don’t take advice on here from angry (rightly!) women adamant they would call the defendant “he”. This may damage the outcome.

Ask the barrister, or the CPS, or the legal team member you have access to. And then do your best to follow those instructions, and don’t panic if you forget and say “he/Bob” if that’s not what you are advised.

Good luck.

Excellent post cara

He or "my ex husband". Anything else dilutes the severity of his crimes. "Pronouns are rohypnol" comes to mind.

fairplayforwomen.com/pronouns/

Could you not say “ she, who was at the time male....”

@LouiseTrees

Could you not say “ she, who was at the time male....”

He is still male.

I'd say at the start "I understand the accused has since transitioned to female, but since the offences took place when they identified as a Male called Dave I will be referring to them in that manner when discussing the events that took place at that time. This is not because I have any issue with their transition but because we are discussing a historical event and I feel more able to accurately describe that as I remember it, concerning a man called Dave".

I’m so sorry for everything you went through and are still having to endure. Your legal adviser will support you through everything including this issue. Be kind to yourself.

I think that getting this vile bastard put away is the main thing here, and you may undermine yourself if you use the ‘wrong’ pronouns and are seen to be intolerant or whatever. I think you need to play the game here.

It’d be shit if it got recorded as a female crime but even worse if he gets away with it and no crime is deemed to have been committed.

Another man who’s suddenly a woman when facing the consequences of his sex crime? I’d call him he.

This.

He committed those sexual crimes as a man. Indeed committing sexual offences is mostly done by men 98% of sex crime is committed. by men.

I wouldn’t use male pronouns for any man. I wouldn’t debase myself like that. Same as I wouldn’t refer to Rachel Dolezal as a black woman.

I would keep repeating his name.

"my then husband"

@Godimabitch

I'd say at the start "I understand the accused has since transitioned to female, but since the offences took place when they identified as a Male called Dave I will be referring to them in that manner when discussing the events that took place at that time. This is not because I have any issue with their transition but because we are discussing a historical event and I feel more able to accurately describe that as I remember it, concerning a man called Dave".

This...

But have a back up plan.

I'd go with "the accused" and "they" but also make an effort to describe how much bigger/stronger ie more masculine they were.

It's utterly reprehensible that not only do we have to re-write history in a court of law but lie having taken an oath not to do so.

I’d be gritting my teeth if I had to refer to him as ‘she’, but end of the day this is about getting justice for the children he has likely abused. This isn’t the time to be pushing the gender ideology IMO.

No problems if people want to risk their careers at work by ‘making a stand’, but the priority here should be not appearing vindictive and thus undermining your statement.

How will it affect his young victims if he walks free? Are you really happy to risk this to prove a point about pronouns?

Have they abandoned the whole ‘swear to tell the truth, the whole truth’ shit then?

ex husband absolutely you can't re-write history that is who this person was to you and that's the person who is being investigated for child abuse.

I think it is very important to make a point of stating that when you are asked to describe any events from the past, you will be referring to the defendant as “My ex husband” or “He” or “Him” because at the time the events took place, your ex-husband made it a point of identifying very much as a man.

@cherrypie111
Please point out the transphobia on this thread and explain why it is more important to highlight this than empathise with an abused woman?

Many many males attack women and children then subsequently identify as women. You’ve had some stats quoted to you already.

Why don’t you use ‘the defendant’ rather than anything else? Avoids the problem. Also Eddie Izzard was on the radio recently and the interviews used his name where normally they would say he or she. Worked well.