What pronoun would you use?

[Learningtobehappier]

Heres the back story.

I was with my EXH for 5 years, left because of DV over 5 years ago with our child, theres zero contact, doesn't know where we live, we've been in refuge previously.

EXH is currently being investigated for Child Sex offences and i should find out soon if he will be charged (theres pretty good evidence).

I am a witness, have provided a statement and would go to court.

EXH now identifies as a female.

I'll obviously ask if the time comes, but in court which pronoun would you use? At the time when everything happened they were male, so it would come naturally to say "he then did this" but I wouldn't want to look bad for using him/he. But at the same time, it would feel really wrong for me to say "then she did this" when at the time they were male.

I thought about using they/their but then I need to be specific that there was only EXH there and that no one else was there, or that there was someone else there but only EXH did something etc.

So what would you use? What would I be expected to use?

absolutely not a transgender bashing thread

'The defendant' would be better than 'the accused'

Good luck OP.

OP, I’m so sorry for the abuse you have suffered at the hands of your ex husband. You’re amazing for having got out of the relationship, and for protecting your child.

This has nothing to do with the very, very rare extreme body dysphoria that may lead to some people feeling the need to “trans”.

He is an autogynephile and his demand that others use his preferred name and pronouns is part of his paraphilia.

So please, please don’t beat yourself up for your feelings. You’re not being transphobic.

I’d use “the defendant/my ex husband”.

I hope you’re being supported through this, OP.

@cherrypie111

I would use they/them

I know this isn't a trans bashing thread but on MN anything like this will soon descend into one unfortunately

Not true

‘The defendant’ or by their surname?

5 years of violent abuse and we are all discussing what pronoun to use so the evidence doesn't come across as vindictive because the perp now identifies as a women.

@ClareBlue

5 years of violent abuse and we are all discussing what pronoun to use so the evidence doesn't come across as vindictive because the perp now identifies as a women.

Exactly

@Flapjak

Crime comitted as a male! He. Considering there is a tiny percentage of trans people, they seem to be overly represented as sex offenders in prison. Is this because male sex offenders identify as females ?

Your source for how many sex offenders are trans is...?

5 years of violent abuse and we are all discussing what pronoun to use so the evidence doesn't come across as vindictive because the perp now identifies as a women.

Because that's the question the op asked

What on earth is this world coming to.
Sorry you are having to go through this op.
HE sounds like a piece of shit.
There is no way I could bring myself to refer to him as she.
These are male crimes.
I wonder if they are being recorded as such and where he will end up if he gets sent to prison.

@Balhammom

I say this as a lawyer.

If you dead-name her or refer to “he”/“him”, the court is most likely to view you as vindictive and biased. They would, in those circumstances, be much less likely to make your evidence seriously.

Agree with this

I'd say 'they '

@ClareBlue

5 years of violent abuse and we are all discussing what pronoun to use so the evidence doesn't come across as vindictive because the perp now identifies as a women.

So you say that it's not true that most of these types of post descend into trans bashing yet here you are, using rhetoric which isn't relevant to the post.

MN is highly transphobic as a whole, and don't even get me started on the 'feminism' board

Yes I’d ask the prosecution barrister what pronouns to use when they come to introduce themselves.

They will know what is most likely to get results!

But you can say “the defendant” and that is fine too.

Please report any transphobia.
It is transphobia to refer to this person as a piece of shit?
Im not saying that because hes trans I'm saying because hes a nonce and abuser.
Whats transbashing?

This is a man so he. If you want to stay on the right side of the woke court then use the name at all times. They/them is a compromise I would not entertain. And she would never happen.

No in a million would I use she!
It was a MAN that abused you.

I would be making it clear at the begging that I wish to use the name this person went by at the time of the crimes.

So sorry you are having to go through this.

I’d take legal advice and try to avoid anything that would help him. Maybe just point and say ‘that person’.

When you give evidence, you will be answering questions. If everything goes well, the people asking the questions will have given this quite a lot of thought, and will have a plan for presenting the case, and also the defence. I think the best thing to do is to listen carefully to what is asked and try to answer fairly without quarrelling with the premise of the questions.

cherrypie111 You asked for information about sex offenders identifying as trans:

unherd.com/thepost/why-are-we-placing-trans-sex-offenders-in-womens-prisons/

fairplayforwomen.com/transgender-prisoners/

By Googling I’m sure you will find others.

So sorry you're going through this. I hope you are allowed to use something you are comfortable with

Just use surname? Sorry u going tough u going through this.

@ClareBlue

5 years of violent abuse and we are all discussing what pronoun to use so the evidence doesn't come across as vindictive because the perp now identifies as a women.

I agree. An abusive pervert has everyone tip toeing around him. Just more manipulation and control

A sex offender with a penis identifies as female? Like fuck. He is a he and he is only pretending to be trans so he can get himself in a women's prison, to prey on women who can't escape. Because he is a predator. He is not trans.
It's like when murderers pretend to be mentally ill, when they're not, they're just evil.

@EspressoExpresso

As above with the use of forenames, but maybe "Betty, then Colin, did XYZ"

Yes.

Lance: My issue here is that if the op has half her mind concentrating on using the "correct" name or pronoun, it's interfering with her thought processes and the flow. She may forget small but potentially important details because of getting caught up in the right words to use.

and

Balhammon: I say this as a lawyer.

If you dead-name her or refer to “he”/“him”, the court is most likely to view you as vindictive and biased. They would, in those circumstances, be much less likely to make your evidence seriously.

The really shitty thing for OP is that both of these are true. The bench guidance for judges (sorry can't remember the correct term, just remember a thread on this round about the time of the Maria MacLachlan assault case) is that current pronouns must be used, and the way the sentence was reduced in that case suggests that judges will take failure to do so seriously.

But at the same time, what those guidelines are doing is forcing witnesses not to tell the truth as they experienced it, but to falsify it.

There's a CBBC game show where one of the rounds simply involves saying "false" when a really obvious sentence (the sky is blue) is true, and "true" when a really obvious sentence (apples fall upwards) is false. You have to do this three times to gain the point. You'd think it would be an easy task, but it's almost impossible to do under studio pressure in front of an audience.

This is effectively what's being asked of witnesses - to describe, truthfully, events from several years back when the perpetrator was a man, but to behave as if he were a woman. There's no way anyone can do it under pressure in a courtroom situation, especially if they're describing an assault or sexual assault, and not stumble. And every stumble makes them less credible to the jury.

This bollocks about not dead naming people and Stalinist airbrushing of the past is going to lead to serious miscarriages of justice, and as always with sex crimes, it will be male people getting away scott free while female victims get shafted yet again.