to demand that MIL pay for my private medical treatment?

[whoshouldpay]

namechanged and this is long...

DS is 15 and has severe autism (low functioning-ish).

I had to return to work when DS was 1 (he was a very delayed toddler but undiagnosed back then). I left looking for a nursery a bit late so found only one which was a bit further from home. I did not have a car at that time so needed to take public transport - a total of 3 buses each way: a 20 bus ride from home change buses, take another 20 min bus ride to nursery and from there it was another 15 mins bus ride + 10 min walk to work. DS did not cope well - he was just crying and screaming. it was very difficult.

Around that time, my parents had a financial windfall and transferred £5000 into our account (I had a joint account with DH) for me to buy a car.

we had picked out the car but the MIL had an accident which required surgery. As the waiting times on the NHS were too long and the wait would have had a detrimental impact on MIL and the ability to function on a day to day basis, DH and his brother and sister decided, to get the surgery done privately to help their mother. Neither of them had savings, so DH transferred our savings (i.e. the money mum had sent me for the car) to MIL and private treatment was promptly sorted and successful. I did not agree with the transfer but DH went ahead anyways. DS was a very difficult toddler, didn't sleep well. I developed PND and was not able to really challenge DH on it - I just wasn't in a good place.

Unfortunately, this meant I had to spent another 2 year using buses as we had to start saving for the money from scratch.

It was 2 years of hell and I have never forgiven DH, Mil and Sil and Bil. I cry regularly about it. I just cannot get over it and let it go. I don't understand it myself...

Now, I have a chronic condition which needs surgery as I am in constant pain but due to covid, waiting times are through the roof.

we do not have the funds to pay for private treatment but I know MIL has some savings. I have demanded that DH requests for MIL to pay for my surgery. after all, I and DS were the ones who paid for her treatment many years ago by not getting a car. It did not have any impact on DH, not his siblings. Knowing MIL, she will not part happily from her cash so this will need loads of pressure from DH. Bil and Sil (who 15 years ago agreed I should sacrifice the car to fund surgery), said it has nothing to do with them.

DH says I am totally unreasonable and that Mils was an emergency and we cannot compare these two and that the money was not a loan but a gift to her and that I will just have to wait for the NHS to sort me.

@London1977

I can't believe he didn't work twice as hard to allow you to stay home and look after your baby, instead of doing that journey.

This, 100%.

But let's expand it further.

It's his mother. He should have worked twice as hard to pay for the surgery if it was so important. Why on earth should OP have had to shoulder the financial burden of his mum's surgery when she really should have just waited for NHS treatment like everyone else who can't afford private surgery? Why is his mother so bloody special? She sounds like a cow- I can't say I'd be helping someone who clearly doesn't have a moral bone in their body.

My mum had to wait for her hip operations. Before her first one she could barely get around. It was tough for her but she didn't have a choice. OP's MIL should have done the same.

If that wasn't an option (ie not being able to earn funds in the time frame needed), he should have obviously got permission from OP whereby she offered the money first. Not took the money against her will or tried to guilt trip her into handing it over.

Even after he took the money, the onus should have been on him to immediately repay OP. This should have been the case even if OP had money set aside for a handbag or another non 'essential' buy. But even moreso when it was for a car to help her and his son. He purposely put his son and wife through years of distress for the sake of acting like the best mummy's boy. His siblings taking nothing to do with it also show how lacking of morals they are, too. How 'convenient' they didn't have savings.

The fact now he won't even get the money back just shows how utterly spineless he is. An absolute bloody disgrace.

He needs to get a better job, stop being a lazy bastard and pay back OP all of the money. OP should not be out 10k because of him and his mother.

Oh, and for anyone saying that they'd give up money for an ill relative over a car. I can't say I'd be the same. Hell would have to freeze over before I gave 5k to an in law as a loan. Even moreso if it meant my child would go without. My kids come before everyone else, every single time. It literally wouldn't matter to me if her leg was bloody hanging off. If my child had SEN and needed that money to make their lives easier, tough shit.

Take out a bank loan, borrow it from your best mate Sue or wait for NHS treatment and suck it up. Not my issue. Plus, you know, she sounds like a horrible cow and I'm not in the business of helping selfish, entitled, morally corrupt twats.

OP, get yourself sorted. Put you and your son first before everyone else. And tell your husband to sort his finances out. He could do with starting to actually act like a responsible adult rather than being more akin to a toddler. You have my utmost sympathy. I hope you're okay.

YABU for still being with this thief. I would have insisted on the money being returned a long time ago otherwise we’d have divorced.

You haven't commented on how much he actually does for your son. Or whether he pulls his weight in other ways. It's easy to make assumptions, but perhaps we're wrong.

he does a lot at home (though I do more but I also work less hours) and he spends a lot of time with DS. They both like the outdoors so they are often on walks/hikes during the weekends. he is not a dad who doesn't do anything or doesn't care and they have a strong bond now.

@MarieIVanArkleStinks

That's theft.

It certainly is. I’d have left the bastard then. But not before putting my money somewhere out of the reach of his thieving paws.

Fucking bastards.

Honestly - he's shown you where you figure in his priority list - no fucking where.
How DARE he steal the money from your parents for you to buy a car and GIFT it to his mother!!

Jeez, how have you stayed with this prick?

I can't believe he didn't work twice as hard to allow you to stay home and look after your baby, instead of doing that journey

Ds was a very difficult baby/toddler. I was desperate to return to work. I could not have afforded childcare without a job so work was my only way to get substantial respite. It also did wonders to my MH which was shot after mat leave.

So your dh has basically stolen money from you? Normally I’d say family money etc but it was intended for you a gift if your parents! How sly he didn’t even discuss it with you, I’d not forgive or trust him again, personally I’d not blame mil I’d be demanding dh sort it but obviously he’s not in the position to do it.

Oh dear, OP.

Totally outrageous behaviour from your husband.

I can't get over how uncaring, devious and selfish your husband and your in-laws are.

Also stunned that it has never occurred to your MIL to make any attempt to pay you back for the operation you funded. Even if she thought her son had taken it in good faith, surely she owes it back? Or does she just feel somehow entitled to private operations that she cannot personally fund?

Haven't read the full thread, but as I understand it, your DH gave your money to your MIL as a gift. Your issue is with your DH. You made a few strange choices back then. You were late looking for a nursery, but did you have to go to the far away one for 2 years? Surely a place must have come up in the nearer one? Why was it your responsibility to bring your son to nursery and not your DH's? Did he have a car? If you worked, you had your own bank account, yet put your parents' gift to you for a car into the joint household account. You said your parents had a windfall and gave you money, but then you paid it back. How are things with your DH generally? I think you may have just woken up to the fact that you have a big DH problem and want to do something about it.

I actually think it is your DH that needs to pay you back the 5,000 he took. In a way you are linking MIL’s operation to yours as if that would cancel each other out but that is not right. Unless someone knowingly receives stolen goods, the buck stops at the thief - your DH. Not his mother. He needs to cough up. Regardless also what purpose you want to use it for. Operation or no operation. And it’s not 10,000 you lost, it’s 5,000. The 5,000 you paid to your parents just meant that you were 5,000 out of pocket, not them. It didn’t double your DH’s amount of stolen money. Which is bad enough as it stands!

Show the thieving so and so this thread it may make him realise what a low thing the weasel has done! I’d tell everyone what he has done is not hide it and protect the thief.

You Husband stole money from you which was a gift from your mother and then YOU paid it back

You say you have separate finances - does he have the 5k that you are owed (indeed 10k)

I think your anger at your MIL though understandable is misplaced as she is right her son gave her the money.

He is the one that stole it from you.

I think you need to sit down and tell him you are his wife and you are suffering every single day. You had the money and not only did he take it but you had to pay your mum back. He needs to support you in this by finding the money

It is beyond appalling that your DH has not given you the money back, it was a gift from your mother to you, not to your mil! It's your DH that is VVVVVU

Christ alive.

I cannot believe that your DP did this without your consent, or that it wasn’t a loan that your MIL pays back. What did your DP say about this.

Yes he should ask her but he clearly isn’t going to, so you have to yourself. Do it by letter? Address both your PIL?

If you think a guilt trip would help, would you DP put up some of the money, and then you could add this point to your request.

I can only hope and assume your husband had some strong qualities to make up for this, but it is hard to imagine what makes up for not sucking up for his wife. I appreciate that overall it probably makes sense for you to stay with him - but I would establish some very clear boundaries and no more joint accounts.

Your husband is the problem he owes you the money OP. Horrible situation he has treated you so poorly. What did your mum have to say about it? I'd not have been happy if I gave my child money to buy a car to help her and my grandchildren and her partner gave it away.

@Redwinestillfine

It was Mil's money given back to her before it was spent. Yes her DH should have consulted her properly but if my mil had given me money to buy something with them urgently needed surgery for the exact same amount, I would feel very awkward about refusing to give it to her. If the mil really wasn't aware then when op is asking for a loan for the surgery she now needs from mil she should without emotion explain the situation. Otherwise mil may think that her gift of 5k wasn't needed in the first place if not long afterwards her son and Dil paid for her surgery

No it wasn't. It was a gift from her parents not her mil. And was given for a particular purpose. Which her husband decided wasn't important.

Op, I understand why you didn't deal with this at the time, you were going through a hard enough time as it was. But your husband isn't respecting you. I know you think you can't leave as financially you are better off together, but sometimes we have to look beyond financial restraints and consider our mental wellbeing

How could you parents ever forgive your DH for this?

Or your MIL for that matter, I would have definitely had something to say about that. Awful thieving people! Is it not awkward at family gatherings?

Your parents must be lovely to put up with all of that.

You sound like a great strong Mum and independent- I think you should leave the marriage and take maintenance/ benefits and whatever help possible. It’s easy to say that as a comment over Mumsnet though and I appreciate life isn’t that simple.

I’d have absolutely left his arse over that, shocking.

I’m sure it’s already been said but I’d be telling him that either HE pays for the surgery or that’s it and leave. I hope you get your surgery OP

@whoshouldpay

I would go to her and explain that the money wasn’t your DHs, it was yours from your parents and had no right to give it to her at the time and you now need it back.

I had that convo years ago. She said DH transferred it to her (true). and that's sorted it for her.

But thanks for the responses. will try to have a serious chat with her this weekend! I don't have anything to lose I suppose!

I agree with you and most PPs, the money should never have been taken in the first place. But, given where you are now...why not approach it from the angle of family helps family. Say to MIL, we came to your aid when you were in need, and I personally sacrificed for years as a result. That's fine, we were glad to do it cough cough. Now we need your help in a similar way.

You were late looking for a nursery, but did you have to go to the far away one for 2 years?

nursery were great with DS. He was by 2 also on the diagnostic pathway for autism and he struggled with change. his needs by 2 - 2.5 were quite different to that of a typical toddler. changing nursery is not easy and if you have a good one, you tend to stick to it.

I started looking 6 months before returning to work. I was stupid. I thought that would be plenty of time. Totally my fault for not sorting that earlier but that was 15 years ago. not sure what point is there not questioning these choices.

How could you parents ever forgive your DH for this?

they have not and don't really have contact. it left a lasting damage.

It feels like they stole your money. The in laws owe you

Legally poster'[s mother gave her £5k - outright gift. Poster chose to put it into a joint account with husband (mistake no. 1) probably without checking the law on joint accounts. Always check the law. Joint accounts are held in law as joint tenants so if one of you dies etc it goes to the other automatically and outside your estate. Husband is probably entitled in law to take that money and give it to his own mother.

So probably no one has broken the law in what was done.

Son then gave money to his mother as an outright gift for the medical treatment. (I don't think there was any agreement it was a loan)
Moral to the story don't put your own money in joint names. Even worse however is no matter whose name things are in if you are married (but not if you are not) then on a divorce all assets are in the pot as are debts.

That does not mean I am not sympathetic to the poster and what happened to her and her depression after the baby.

May a private clinic would do a repayment scheme or have an arrangement with a commercial loan provider so you could borrow the money.

OP - it seems overall that you're content in your marriage and will continue in it.

However, if you are considering your options, have you put your details into EntitledTo - Benefits & Work - Turn2Us or any similar calculators to get an estimate of what you would receive if you broke up in your circumstances?

www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/forum

www.turn2us.org.uk/

What kind of surgery do you need OP?

Have you discussed the impact it is having on your caring responsibilities with your GP?

Leaving the money issue aside (which is a dreadful betrayal of trust) maybe your GP, if he is more aware of the issues, can fast track it for you?