He doesn’t want to marry

[StandingMirror]

Hi
I’ve been with my partner for nearly 18 years and have three children together. In the beginning of our relationship, marriage wasn’t that important to me, however now we have children and we’ve been together this long it’s something that I want.
I’ve mentioned it several times over the years, however nothing ever changed.
I don’t want a big wedding, registry office would be just fine.
Yesterday we were watching Bridgerton and I jokingly said it’s an insult you don’t want to marry me haha. But then I thought about it more and thought actually yes it is kind of an insult we’ve been together this long, we have children and I want to marry but I’m clearly not good enough for you. Partner kind of got in a huff and said oh not this again. This is his standard answer but never gives me a reason why he won’t marry. This morning I’m getting the silent treatment and when I commented on it he’s saying well I’m always getting that treatment.
I’m a SAHM, house ( mortgage free) in his name and all savings in his name (inheritance) . Some financial arrangements made in case of his death.
Am I really this unreasonable to expect better?

Lots of women find themselves in this situation.
Early on, they were laid back about marriage and didn’t mind too much either way. Perhaps they then decided they would like it, but by then they had bought a house together and even had a child. Marriage had never been part of the deal and so it felt wrong to push it too hard. But lots of women do really want it and as time goes in feel more and more disappointed when their partner won’t really engage in talking about it.

On one level, if it wasn’t part of the arrangement or plan for the future early on, why should a man suddenly find he has to do it when he didn’t want to, the goal posts have been changed. On the other hand, if someone isn’t that bothered and not actively opposed to marriage (the position of many) why wouldn’t they agree for the person they love who they know really wants it.

Essentially though, I think it’s actually really important for women to clarify their own position in this earlier on. If women want marriage, they should say so even if there is no timescale to it. They should voice this desire for the future, before moving in or having children. Certainly once children are there, it’s much harder to leave someone who doesn’t have the same life goals. Drifting into living together and especially having children without having talked and found agreed life goals (which include attitudes to marriage) just opens the way to one or both people being disappointed.

No one is saying anyone has to agree to marry at an early stage or to say the relationship will end in marriage. It’s about talking about that being how you see your life path. Talking about how you see your life path in terms of things like career, marriage, children is really important. It doesn’t mean the marriage and children will be with the current partner. But if you are both diametrically opposed on a key issue, it can flag that considering whether to continue or not in the relationship is a good idea. Just not talking about it (and lots of people really struggle to communicate, especially on these issues that might provoke disagreement) is burying your head inn the sand and building up trouble for later.

So to Op, I’d say it’s a shame it’s got to 18 years and this wasn’t sorted out much sooner. It’s something those in the first year or two of a relationship might consider carefully or even those just starting out and considering g moving in together. But for now, I would say to partner that you want to have a definitive talk about this issue. Even if he is huffy about it, say you want to. Set a time and date to have a really good, thorough talk, rather than one where a few things are said on the back of another conversation but the conversation isn’t fully had because someone goes off part way through. Think carefully about all the things you want to say about it as an issue and recognise you can’t keep having the big conversation. And consider carefully what your response is going to be if he categorically says he won’t marry you. You can either accept it and live with it (you need to decide if you can manage this) or nor remain with him. Do t make idle threats of leaving him if you don’t mean to.

Sadly lots of women are in this position. They don’t want to leave and they won’t leave because there are children, they do love the man and they can’t imagine a different life....but they just aren’t as happy as they could be. And that’s a great shame, because they are missing out on a key element if life that is important to them. It can be like the sadness people feel who would love to have children and can’t or don’t.

I don’t think you can expect him to get married if he’s made it clear all along it’s not what he wants. I do think it’s more than fair to expect some financial security such as the house being in both your names.
I agree with other posters though, why did you leave yourself so incredibly vulnerable?

@AIMD

Can I ask....any knowledgable. Would op not have any claim simply because they aren’t married? I thought I’d you had lives together for a substantial amount of time as “common law partner” (if that’s the right term) you could still claim some of their assets.

No, there is no such concept as common law wife/husband.

No marriage contract, no rights.

The reason is, in the event of a marital split, the judge can apply the Matrimonial Causes Act (1958) which is quite generous to the wife.

If no marriage, this act cannot be applied and there isn’t really corresponding Legislation to cover unmarried partners, it’s a mishmash of other pieces of legislation which Would result in a far less generous settlement to the op in this case.

I have to agree OP, you need a job and fast. I’d also be reconsidering the relationship tbh. He’s played you like a fiddle, and he knows it.

I couldn’t be with someone who held me in such low regard.

@Indecisive12 I do think it’s more than fair to expect some financial security such as the house being in both your names

He’d be crazy to do this! If I were him I wouldn’t put the house in her name in a million years. She can expect it all she wants but it’ll never happen.

@BumbleBiscuit I agree he’d be stupid to do it but I think that’s all she can ask, for a percentage of the house in her name. Lots of posters saying book a registry office, that’ll send him running for the hills.

Your boyfriend saw you coming from day one. Your boyfriend doesn't want to marry you and never did. I'm guessing he thought you thought the same as you didn't mind not marrying. It isn't his, or anyone's, fault you have changed your mind years later.

Did you at least, if nothing else to protect yourself, give your children your name? Or did you want them to have a different name from you?

You are being unreasonable to expect your boyfriend to change his view on you this far down the line. However, there are steps you can take to protect yourself and your children if you want to.

We aren’t married (much to my annoyance; in a similar position to you).

However, the difference is that all accounts and mortgage are in both our names.

Suggest

Get a full time job
You both pay half of any childcare & child expense
You pay into an employee private pension
You create your own savings, in your own bank account
Both make a will (although thus can be updated at any time)
Check your National Insurance record & state pension forecast on www.gov.uk
If you are in UK

Legally, you are 2 single people

@PegasusReturns

MaskingForIt

And it is a registration office, not a registry office. Registries are for presents

Not in the U.K. it’s a registry office

In the UK it is called a registry office, however I have been informed by MIL, who is always right, that it is in fact a register office. On checking I found that this is also correct.

It is not a registration office in terms of weddings.

This is why he doesn't want to marry you. He knows you'd get half in a divorce. Also he has you staying at home doing all the work and looking after the kids. Man, he's got it made.

This ^^

I went back to university for a change of career at 45 as I am disabled and couldn't do nursing any more.
I did a three year degree in podiatry - then went straight into the NHS as a podiatrist. NHS podiatry is Monday to Friday with weekends and bank holidays off and is strictly 9-5 so you don't have to find awkward childcare. There is a good NHS pension.
There were loads of SAHMS on my course wanting to get back on their feet.
Those of them who didn't want to do NHS work went into private podiatry and the average wage is £3k to £5k a month before tax. There is unlimited work available.
Post covid there is a desperate need for podiatrists and you'd get a job anywhere if you are prepared to work hard.
I moved to a much cheaper area of the country when I qualified so I could get a much bigger house whilst having the same salary as anyone living in the south east.
if you keep him sweet there is no reason why you shouldn't go and do a degree while you are still with him.
You need to do something like this so you can secure your future, don't waste time on basic pay jobs. Use your head.
If you don't have any qualifications you can do a pre-degree year which they will accept.
Don't waste time bitching at him or pestering him to marry you, he won't. Get on with planning the rest of your life, even if you decide to stay with him you still need your own money.

Sorry OP but I have to agree with PP’s you’re in such a vulnerable situation where DP has everything (house, savings, job) whilst you have nothing in terms of security. It’s a horrible situation to be in.

If he up and left you tomorrow you’d be homeless, penniless and reliant on UC until you could find a job which would be difficult with childcare needs. I’m only saying this to help stress to you the severity of your situation. I’m not surprised he doesn’t want to marry you he has all the power and is in a much better position.

I do think, I’m afraid, that if he really loved you he would marry you to give you the security. No point beating him over the head with it though as you’ve got your answer!

@AuntyFungal

If he won’t marry you - you have some very tough decisions to make.

1. Stay, and hope you never break up. But...

You could be homeless if he dies.
You might not be his pension recipient.
You might not be able to claim his death in service benefits.
You are not his next of kin - you can’t ‘sign off’ for serious medical / end of life care.
He can change any financial (including will) document at any point and not inform you.
If he dies and your adult DC want to sell the house - they can. A terrible thought but it happens.
He can throw you out of the house with no notice.

You do have options.

1. He marries you.
2. Assets to be put in your name - if he won’t marry.
3. You go out to work and bank all of your pay. Partner should pay all childcare related costs.
4. You leave him and leave the children with him and have contact at weekends / holidays etc... yes this is controversial but you are playing £ and career catch up. I’m guessing you’re 40ish, no pension, limited mortgage options, career progression.

Society shouldn’t condemn women for making hard choices that men have been able to socially make since the year dot.

Either your partner is so dim that he doesn’t understand the very precarious position you’re in. Or he doesn’t care.
Do you want to spend the rest of your days feeling on a knife’s edge? It would kill any love and respected I’d feel.

This.

Fundamentally you don't have a partner, you have a boyfriend that you lodge with. He's not at fault for that- this is the arrangement you both agreed to.

If you want it to change you need to clearly lay out why, in terms of your financial security, and come to an arrangement you both agree on. That can be done without marriage.

If he won't do that then your security and happiness is not important to him. At that point you can either end the relationship or continue to exchange sex/companionship/domestic duties for financial security as many women sadly have to.

It's notable that a man in this position would have already been called a cocklodger by now. This sort of arrangement works for huge number of couples and forms the basis of many loving relationships- but it must be mutually agreed and fairly negotiated to work.

It's a difficult one because when you didn't want to get married it was all well and good now you have done a u turn it now becomes unreasonable because you have changed your mind.

You can sort finical side of thing without getting married .

@Re1gnRa1n

Suggest

Get a full time job
You both pay half of any childcare & child expense
You pay into an employee private pension
You create your own savings, in your own bank account
Both make a will (although thus can be updated at any time)
Check your National Insurance record & state pension forecast on www.gov.uk
If you are in UK

Legally, you are 2 single people

Those are all good suggestions, but the OP is never going to make up for the years she has been a SAHM/low earner. She has lost a decade or more of career progression, NI contributions and pension.

OP, you must, must act before the children are 18. At the moment, you at a real risk of spending your retirement in poverty.

You need to have the serious chat about marriage I mentioned above.
And, probably not at the same time, you need to have a talk about the finances.

The fact all the assets and money is in his name suggests you’ve not been good at or able to talk about these issues through your relationship or you have been a doormat. It is vitally important you do talk about this and that things need to be out into both names. If he is resistant, you need to make clear to him that without it all being in joint names, you are left extremely vulnerable and it is him putting you in that position. Someone who loves you doesn’t do that to you.

There are big things to think about. At the moment, you sound like you have very little - not the marriage you want nor the financial security you vitally need. It is time to think about this man and what he is providing for you when he is denying these 2 important things and to call him on it.

He probably won’t like it and it sounds like he doesn’t engage when topics he’s not keen on come up. You must call him on that too. Sadly it’s unlikely he will say that he will put the assets into both names or consider marriage again, but if you’ve never really sat down and fully explained it all to him, there is a small chance, that if it’s spelled out and he has just been oblivious rather than intentional, he might change.

But if not, you need to consider the future and securing one for yourself if he’s not going to help you do it. Scary and easy for us on here to say, but really this is the case. And I’d consider carefully if actually marrying a man who isn’t interested in your security is a good idea anyway...obviously, being married in itself would give you rights, but the nature of the man sounds like he’s interested in protecting himself and his security and denying you yours. Is that the kind of person you want to be married to?

You have not only put yourself in a very vulnerable position like all the other previous posters have pointed out but also put your children in a very vulnerable position.
If your husband was to walk out of the relationship tomorrow and marry another woman and die suddenly without any will in place, that woman and her children would be inheriting all of his assets.
If I were you I would at least ask your partner to put assets in joint names with your children so that at least your children do not lose out in case your relationship breaks down and at the same time you don't come off as grabby because you're not asking for the assets but asking for both of your children.
In the meantime as all others have pointed out you should look for a job or at least look to contribute towards your pension.

I would book the registry office as soon as lockdown ends, tell him and all your family and friends that it's happening. I doubt he will have the nerve to refuse if everybody knows

So basically railroad and bully him into marrying and rely on the miniscule chance that he'll go along with it to save face ?

Yeah that'll work

Can you imagine if a man booked a Wedding , told all the family and said basically "Be There" to his partner ? .

@MaskingForIt

And it is a registration office, not a registry office. Registries are for presents.

No, its a Registry Office.

www.registryofficesnearme.com/registry-office/shrewsbury-registry-office

[quote StandingMirror]@PicsInRed yes I do receive CB in my name
Also I have worked over the years on and off so I haven’t been a housewife all the time, however was low paid jobs fitted around children
I have some savings but not a massive amount[/quote]
Thank goodness for that!

Right, so you're not starting from the worst possible position then, that's good. As a PP said, you should - and I would do this very, very quietly - see a good family law solictor and ask whether your paid working financial contributions over the years would be enough to register an interest in the house. It's worth a try. Do you have paperwork showing your earnings? Do you have joint bank accounts? Can you show contributions to mortgage or house maintenance?

I think what you're looking at here is "constructive trust" or rights of estoppel" or perhaps an "occupation order", but this is a matter for a good solictor.

You must go back to work asap. How old are the kids, do they legally need childcare? I wouldn't "down tools" on the domestic side until you're in a position to either leave or register an interest in the house. Wait until you're equipped to support yourself. Then make your move.

Do you have a slow cooker? They're a god send if you're suddenly having to return to work and still cook for the kids. You can then batch cook and reheat - and only need to cook vegetables to go with it when you get home in the evening.

When a couple make a decision that one of them will stop/reduce paid work to care for children, the main earner - whether male or female - must recognise that unpaid work and divide assets fairly
Absolutely but I've had enough make colleagues moaning about their wives not wanting to go back to work after the youngest starts school when the agreement was that they would, wanting a 3rd or 4th child when it was agreed they'd stay at 2, then having contraception failuure to believe that's it's far from always the case that the partner is happy or even encouraging their partner/wife to be a sahm.

That's true but, when it's the other way round, the male partner has very rarely given up/reduced work to care for children. Usually he is either earning a good wage or is a full-on cocklodger but, either way, he isn't earning less because of unpaid work he is doing on behalf of the family.

And yet if he had done exactly what op has done, what would you tell the woman in that situation? Hand over half of everything you've worked hard for or inherited?

Realistically I would, because otherwise you're not a partnership. Op is essentially a free child bearer, carer, cook and cleaner to her boyfriend, if you want to look at it in simplistic terms. But they aren't a partnership.

Booking a registry office is worth a shot. Just do it, tell him on the day (provided he has no other genuine commitments) and say you just want to get the legals tied up because of covid, etc.

Put him on the spot. If he refuses you are no worse off. If he agrees just get down there, sign the paperwork, go home and take a big sigh of relief. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

Being in a partnership is just that. It shouldn't be a 'him' or 'me' contest. Sit down with your partner and explain how you are feeling undervalued and vulnerable. If your partner cares for you and has your best interests at heart then you can have a proportionate legal document drawn up. It doesn't have to be marriage, although this is easiest. Next move should be a celebration of a life together and children, not a 'mine', 'yours' situation. And yes your partner does have control of all the financial assets but that's only a problem if they are an actual psycho who wants to 'shaft you'. In which case: flee and don't look back.

@MaskingForIt

And it is a registration office, not a registry office. Registries are for presents.

It's a Register Office. If you're going to be a pedant at least get your facts right.