What am I hearing from nextdoor neighbours?

[worriedneighbour1]

DH and I moved into new home around a year ago. We have neighbours on one side; Husband, Wife and one DD (approx 8 years old).

Before the first UK lockdown, we'd frequently hear Wife and DD having morning screaming matches lasting 20 minutes or so, very regularly, maybe 3 times a week. DH reckoned it sounded like stressful school routine. It woke us up what feels like a million times.

Things quietened down for a bit, but have really taken off again in the last couple of months. We hear screaming/shouting/banging, almost every day or every other day. Especially upstairs in the mornings and evenings. The DD really screams and crys and sometimes sounds very worked up.

The problem is it's mostly all in another language so we can't tell if it's something like "I've told you a thousand times to get your shoes on!" or something worse.

It just sounds so alarming to me, especially when the husband joins in, which happens less often. Monthly perhaps.

We didn't have anything like this in my house when I grew up. Occasional tantrums and some arguing between DPs, but nothing like this and not almost every day.

DH and I dont have any DCs so are trying to figure out what's 'normal.'

I'm not aware of any learning difficulties. We don't know them very well at all with the language barrier, just friendly hellos over the fence.

AIBU to report it (to who!?) or could this be normal?

You could also seek advice from your GP about behaviour and parenting. They might be able to put you in touch with someone who could help. I know there were leaflets in our local pharmacy about seeking advice with behaviour

[quote luxxlisbon]@redamancy It really doesn't sound like the OP is taking this lightly at all. Surely the risk to the parent's anxiety is worth it when you are balancing the safety and possibly health of a child?

I don't think anyone reports possible abuse lightly.[/quote]
Some people love the drama. Some people love feeling superior. Some people are busybodies. Some people like causing trouble.
But I hope most people report in good faith, out of concern for children.

I'm pretty sure if you were my neighbours when my kids were that age you would think ww3 had broken out some days, my dd "looks" normal but is autistic and was a bloody nightmare! Battle over everything and yes after years and no respite shouting was excessive - might not be right but at the end of your tether you don't always act how you should. Unless there's other reasons, a mother arguing with a primary aged child is not that significant in my personal experience, especially as it's hardly been a normal year.

But if you are concerned a call to social services doesn't hurt - there may be other concerns from school already.

DH and the kids have wrestling matches where he literally throws them around the house any chance he can get. Plenty of screaming, running, banging and shouting from my house and it probably does sound like we are torturing children but my neighbour isn't a fucking moron so she mentioned in conversation and I explained DH is just a big kid.

@Amazling

DH and the kids have wrestling matches where he literally throws them around the house any chance he can get. Plenty of screaming, running, banging and shouting from my house and it probably does sound like we are torturing children but my neighbour isn't a fucking moron so she mentioned in conversation and I explained DH is just a big kid.

So? Why would you feel the need to mention that? It's totally and utterly irrelevant to this situation. Do you think the mother is playing a daily game with the kid and they're all playing?

people minded their own business instead of constanttly worrying about what their neighbours were doing. There are too many people nowadays with too much time on their hands
There are still plenty of people who mind their own business and don't worry about what their neighbours are doing and that's why you see kids in the news who've been abused or neglected to death, not to mention people you don't see on the news who've been subjected to severe emotional abuse that wrecks their lives.

Report it. Google your local Children's Services and report it to them. Depending on your area they might have a MASH team (Multi Agency Safeguarding Hub) which will include other agencies too. A language barrier might be stopping them from accessing any kind of support they need, so they can be given early help to access them.

@BonnieLisbon

people minded their own business instead of constanttly worrying about what their neighbours were doing. There are too many people nowadays with too much time on their hands There are still plenty of people who mind their own business and don't worry about what their neighbours are doing and that's why you see kids in the news who've been abused or neglected to death, not to mention people you don't see on the news who've been subjected to severe emotional abuse that wrecks their lives.

I agree, this poster reads like 'back in the day people minded their own business and you could slap your kids or wife around as much as you wanted'.

"Nowadays"

There was a time it was legal to abuse children or your spouse, doesn't mean it was right then or is acceptable now.

It’s useful that you’ve clarified exactly what you are hearing, as it sounds more concretely concerning now you’ve mentioned that the mum is continually screaming at the child while she is screaming and crying. When I first read your post my first thought was oh no I hope my neighbours don’t report me to social services. My daughter doesn’t have any learning difficulties but at 6 has recently become very stroppy at times and completely looses the plot over relatively small things resulting in her screaming like someone is trying to kill her (I’ve never heard anything like it and have to admit that I hadn’t expected it at this age) slamming doors etc. She’s usually a pretty happy child and generally is between her outbursts but they’ve become more frequent over the last month and I’ve worried about what our neighbours must think, I‘ve felt utterly mortified the last few times this has happened and it’s horrible to see my daughter so upset and out of control. I apologised to our neighbours the last time I saw them. I have also shouted at her sometimes while this has been going on as it’s hugely frustrating and things are tough at the moment so rightly or wrongly I have far less patience than I usually have. However, I would never repeatedly scream my daughter while she was so distressed and even if I’ve become frustrated and shouted at the start of such a tantrum I always take a deep breath and sit close by and offer cuddles as or when she starts to calm down. It’s so much harder when you can’t understand what’s being said. I would say don’t underestimate the extent to which children can throw a tantrum / sound like they are being murdered over a relatively minor event as they are still learning to regulate their emotions and take into account that most parents at moment are less patient that they usually are due to the ongoing stresses of home schooling, lockdown etc but if you’re feeling this is above and beyond what is being reported by parents on here and the mother isn’t demonstrating any emotional regulation and is continually screaming while her daughter is hugely distressed this would be a red flag for me. I’m also not dismissing that a child screaming hysterically could be a sign of abuse either I’m just providing an example of what you’d experience if you were my neighbour at present. I hope the little girl is ok.

luxxlisbon I like your username by the way.

OP only you can really decide, none of us have heard or witnessed what you have and when we've come back saying X, Y, Z you're still in the mindset abuse is going on. You want to report it, so report it. It doesn't matter what anyone else says on here, I'm not really sure what you're looking for. Some sort of validation or thumbs up from people?

@redamancy

Oh and to answer another poster, if you call social services it does not result in a child being removed. This is the very last resort and there are many interventions available before you get anywhere close to that

But in my line of work I see the impact of this on innocent families, especially mothers. People report anonymously, and don’t think about the consequences. Even just a single visit from children’s services and then being signed off can have a major impact on the mental health of a parent, cause awful anxiety and paranoia and take the joy out of parenting forevermore.

You should never take reporting someone lightly, report with your whole chest if you’re seriously concerned but reporting anonymously and taking the stance that if it’s innocent then it won’t have any impact and everything will be fine is downright wrong.

if it’s innocent then it won’t have any impact and everything will be fine is downright wrong

I disagree, I see the outcomes in my line of work and if everything is fine then there is no impact. If someone suffers awful anxiety and paranoia, following a referral, then I would argue that things weren't exactly hunky dory to start with.

You should never take reporting someone lightly Having a chat with a social worker about a concern is not reporting someone. Please stop using that term as it has the wrong connotation.

I would also argue that no one takes a suspicion of child abuse, lightly.

Posts like yours seem to suggest that speaking to a social worker is the very last thing anyone should do. Shame on you.

@Goingtothebudgies

People do report neighbours and family maliciously, unfortunately. It's an extremely easy and risk free way of fucking up someone's life. And yes, some report over nothing or next to nothing. Maybe the way they brought up their child is different from the way you bring up yours. Social Services don't have a magic wand - if a family is under stress / overworked etc, there's nothing they can do about that. They are highly unlikely to do anything to help this family, except in the unlikely case that the child is being abused and needs close monitoring or removal.

People do report neighbours and family maliciously, unfortunately. It's an extremely easy and risk free way of fucking up someone's life

Yes, you will also get malicious people but social workers are trained to recognise child abuse. They won't fuck up anyone's life on the basis of one telephone call.

I can’t believe there are people that would ignore this because “the child might be autistic” if that’s the case, the parents will provide information to that effect when checked on???? More importantly, the child “might be being abused” Jesus.

@SofiaAmes

Don't be ridiculous....shouting is hardly the most serious thing happening right now. And if you "report" this, then someone will have to come out and investigate which means that that's an exposure to covid, and a use of a resource that almost certainly could be better used elsewhere. Some cultures are more "shouty" than others. Everytime we went to Italy, my (now ex)H would get very agitated about how "angry" everyone was and shouting all the time. He did not speak Italian. I do. They were usually doing something like talking about the football scores, or what they were eating or the lottery. I am sure that pretty much every time he thought they were angry, they were in fact happy and just expressing it at a volume and with an energy that he wasn't used to. Never mind that maybe their dd has issues that need addressing, but since we're in the middle of a pandemic, they aren't getting the support they need. Reporting them right now is just going to exacerbate the situation.

My Nonno was totally the same!

That and shoving as much food into us as we could handle.

You hungry? No. Take a banana. Just in case. Oh. And a yogurt. You wanna sandwich? I make you one. Sit. Sit. You want some spaghetti to take hone? No? Oh. Come on. Just one slice. Here. Let me make you a roast? Why you no eat! You waste away!

Social workers may not fuck up someone's life on the basis of a phone call, but they do routinely contact the school and GP and visit the family, over an anonymous call or letter. Which does a lot of psychological damage to an innocent family.

How do you expect Social Services to consider an anonymous complaint if they don't meet the family and, though this is arguable, run other checks? It's a win win for someone malicious, or for a general busy body who likes reporting people and gets a power kick. God knows we've seen plenty of evidence, over Lockdown, that those people are legion.

So what are people supposed to do if they suspect abuse?

@Purplethrow

So what are people supposed to do if they suspect abuse?

If you think a child or young person is at risk or being abused or neglected, contact the children’s social care team at your local council. A quick google will find the number.

Don't listen to the posts about busy bodies ruining people's lives. A social worker is a professional who knows how to identify abuse.

@Goingtothebudgies

Social workers may not fuck up someone's life on the basis of a phone call, but they do routinely contact the school and GP and visit the family, over an anonymous call or letter. Which does a lot of psychological damage to an innocent family.

Which does a lot of psychological damage to an innocent family

Please get off this band waggon. You're encouraging people to ignore child abuse.

@converseandjeans

I'm surprised at people saying to ignore it. There seems to be thx view that because it's a different language that perhaps it's just the way they communicate. When you hear high profile cases there's always the question of why nobody reported anything.

Daniel Pelka, Victoria Climbie, Baby P - people must have noticed something? Why didn't things get reported?

This. Not to mention my own experience of abuse as a child, when people must have known and heard stuff but ignored it.

I can't believe that this is the same Mumsnet where people are encouraged to report their neighbours for having a relative visit their home.

OP, contact the NSPCC for advice on what to do. You don't have to do anything identifying at that point, but you can then work out where to go from there.

@Cheeseboardandmincepies

Why does everyone jump to social services all the time? Why not knock and just ask if everything is okay? Maybe the DD has learning disabilities or maybe it just sounds shouty?

No-one, even now, is likely to believe what my mother did. She was a paragon of the community, had loads of friends, and we had people round our house all the time as she was so sociable.

Not one of those people saw there was anything wrong. And a neighbour coming to our door would have met a friendly, cheerful woman who would have given them an entirely reasonable explanation.

I'm 63 and my brother is still the only person other than me who knows what she was really like.

@saraclara

That's chilling, my heart goes out to you.

I'm very shocked at the number of posters on here warning against speaking to Children's Services.