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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to give my niece money for uni

255 replies

Almostslimjim · 12/01/2021 08:24

when I may not be able to for other niblings?

My niece is due for uni soon, she is a bright and intelligent girl and wants to go to uni but currently is refusing to due to the level of debt she will accrue at the end. I believe, based on her academic record that she would do well there.

We currently have the means to give her some money towards uni, equating to roughly half. I would like to discuss this with my sister (DNs mum) however my only concern is I may be unable to offer the same support to my other nieces and nephews - I currently have niece, 1 nephew (3) and 1 nibling on the way but have lots of younger siblings who are not yet having families but likely will in the future.

I also have 2 children of my own, whose uni funds are already accounted for.

The amount I have available for niece would make a big difference to her, however split between my siblings (e.g. I divided between 5 for them to use for their kids) would be very small, almost worthless.

WWYD?

AIBU to offer the help whilst I can? Knowing it is unlikely to be possible for the others?

OP posts:
AlwaysCheddar · 12/01/2021 09:39

Do you think there’s any chance your niece is saying she might not go to university because her and/or her mother/father are hoping that you’re going to pay for it and I waiting for you to make that call?

AlwaysCheddar · 12/01/2021 09:40

I don’t think you should pay.

Gogadgetgo123 · 12/01/2021 09:40

@Almostslimjim

Also please please do as pp said and look at the Martin Lewis article on student debt. He advises looking at it as an additional tax. You only pay back when you earn over a certain amount and even then you barely notice it.

I am very aware of how student debt works! I'm a doctor and have a tonne of student loans myself!

Sorry that's not clear in your op and I'm not quite sure why you being a Dr makes any difference to your ability to understand student loans?
EileenGC · 12/01/2021 09:41

I think this would be a lovely gesture towards your niece.

However, I still wouldn't offer her the money but instead I would plan a nice, long chat where both her and her mum are present. I would explain to them extensively (again, as it sounds like you've already tried!) why she doesn't need to pay uni fees upfront and why a student loan can be MORE beneficial in the long term, and it isn't real debt like say, a credit card or car loan.

Three of my friends from uni finished their course with £80k of student loan debt each. 4-year Bachelor degree, plus full maintenance loan for London which is around £10-11k per year. One of them recently bought a house with his partner, had no issues getting a mortgage because student debt isn't considered the same as credit card/bank loans debt. I have £37k in debt myself (no maintenance loan option for EU students). We work in the arts industry, mostly freelance. 90% of us won't ever get to pay off the loan. Some of us won't even start to pay it.

It varies from industry to industry, but a vast amount of people don't pay their student loans or they are written off before the full amount is paid. So it ends up cheaper to take the loan.

My family are very low-income and I was the first to go to uni. In a similar way to your niece, I was taught to avoid debt as much as I could. I could've stayed in my country and studied at the grand price of £0 a year, then go on the job center list as unemployed. Or I could get myself into 'debt' and move to the UK where I had the chance to access a much higher level of training which has increased my earning potential and job prospects.

Which industry/job is your niece looking into? If it's relatively low-paying she will never pay off the loan in full. If it's a six figure salary, the monthly amount that goes on 'student tax' will barely be noticeable. In either of these cases, I strongly believe a university education will give her more options and, most probably, access to higher wages than if she didn't go to uni. Her and her mother need to understand this.

Love51 · 12/01/2021 09:41

I just want to say to OP that you sound lovely (I know when people on here say that they are usually being sarcastic, clearly I'm not!). It is really tricky to give something without causing offence. I'm with you that you shouldn't not do something nice for someone because others will get jealous, because it doesn't benefit anyone. Your cousin not getting the car wouldn't have helped you, and your niece not getting support from you won't help her twinkle cousins. I've got quite a complicated family and I've said to my mum not to worry about being fair, because the only way to be completely fair is to give nothing to anyone. So we are all better off than fair!

I would check if your niece actually wants to go to uni, and if she does see if a maintenance payment would help.
As pp said, if you make it a loan you can recycle it for the youngsters, or you can have the money back for yourself. Or let her keep it! Good luck! Never a good deed goes unpunished.

ScrapThatThen · 12/01/2021 09:42

She is in as good a position as anyone to go to uni. She has decided not to.

Woodspritely · 12/01/2021 09:43

What’s a nibling?

Original poster
Almostslimjim · 12/01/2021 09:44

She wants to do programming or scientific research, her A levels are Chemistry, Physics, Maths and programming. DH is in software, fairly senior so has discussed options and paths with her, but his advice (as someone who employs, mentors and trains lots of developers every year) is at her age uni is the best option.

OP posts:
JillofTrades · 12/01/2021 09:45

I would op. I personally think It would be silly to let this opportunity for her go by, just to be fair to a 3year old and some future nieces and nephews who don't even exist. Your circumstances could change down the line anyway and you would not be able to. It will make a difference NOW.

Gogadgetgo123 · 12/01/2021 09:45

@Almostslimjim

Additionally while you say you have money for your dc they may potentially feel that that money could be used to help them further...even setting up a pension fund for them (never too early to start!)

If my children ever display that sort of attitude I would be incredibly disappointed with them. To the point I'd withhold any further money from them!

Wow that sounds lovely. So you are prepared to potentially throw thousands at your DN who may or may not be that keen on going to uni and if your own dc feel that it may have been unfair in the future you may choose to withhold further financial support to them? Whatever the actual outcome of all of this I think that statement says everything.
Original poster
Almostslimjim · 12/01/2021 09:45

@Woodspritely

What’s a nibling?
Gender neutral/ group term for niece and/or nephew, coined in the 1950s.
OP posts:
EileenGC · 12/01/2021 09:45

And like PP suggested, she would probably appreciate even a small contribution towards her monthly expenses, if she ends up taking the loans and you would still like to help. Having an extra £50 a month would've meant the world to me.

If they're low income, she might be entitled to a full maintenance loan on top of fees. I know on MN you're a bad parent if you don't give your children £200 a week and pay for their catered halls accommodation, but the reality is that many parents just can't afford to support their kids at uni.

Maintenance loans, what we used to call 'the February grant' (bloody amazing to receive £1250 after the January drought) and part-time jobs in retails were the way to go for those of us who couldn't receive a penny from our parents.

EileenGC · 12/01/2021 09:47

@Almostslimjim

She wants to do programming or scientific research, her A levels are Chemistry, Physics, Maths and programming. DH is in software, fairly senior so has discussed options and paths with her, but his advice (as someone who employs, mentors and trains lots of developers every year) is at her age uni is the best option.
Bloody hell, does she realise her earning potential if she does well will be huge? This is not someone who wants to get £60k of debt to become a primary school teacher or part-time Russian translator. In what world will she not be able to afford student loans?
thegcatsmother · 12/01/2021 09:49

Worst Please explain why it is 'daft' to pay upfront if you can do so? Why wouldn't you want to avoid the compound interest accruing on the loan from the time the first payment hits your account?

Currently, according to the IFS, 83% of student loans will never be repaid, so they are either magicked off the government balance sheet, or the taxpayer subsidises them.

Original poster
Almostslimjim · 12/01/2021 09:49

Wow that sounds lovely. So you are prepared to potentially throw thousands at your DN who may or may not be that keen on going to uni and if your own dc feel that it may have been unfair in the future you may choose to withhold further financial support to them? Whatever the actual outcome of all of this I think that statement says everything.

Why? Because I hope that my children are not greedy? That despite them having much more than I give their cousins, and more than most children generally I would be incredibly disappointed if they were resentful? That I want them to see the value in giving to others and being generous? Yeah, I sound horrible.

OP posts:
DishedUp · 12/01/2021 09:51

I really don't think you should pay her fees.

Firstly there's really no point paying half the fees. She will still pay the same monthly contribution, interest is high and most people I know pay considerably less off monthly than the interest it accrues. Yes she will have a smaller debt so the risk of this happening is lower but equally she may still never pay it off and you've just wasted money

Secondly I think if she really wanted to go to uni she would accept the debt. If your bright and want to go to uni the debt is fairly meaningless for the potential career benefits. And if its not then its not worth going to uni

It would be better to use the money towards living expenses or something if you really want to help. But I think unless your a multimillionaire with thousands just lying around paying fees is a waste of money

TableFlowerss · 12/01/2021 09:52

Who needs to know?

Why can’t you just do it and it’s between you and your sister?

I don’t suppose your sister is going to scupper her own kids chances and blab to everyone in the family....

At the eve of the day, circumstances change so by the time your other nieces/nephews get to uni, you might not even be able to pay your own mortgage never mind their uni fees.

It’s not like there’s 2 going next year and you’re just giving it to one.

It’s a very kind gesture, but I also think that if they are from a lower income family there are things in place like grants etc to help these students. If someone really wants to go to uni, they can. Some have it easier than others, absolutely, but even without your help financially, is she really wanted to go, she would make it work I’m sure

Original poster
Almostslimjim · 12/01/2021 09:53

EileenGC

That's what we have been trying to explain to her. It's hard, without giving away DHs salary (which we aren't comfortable doing). I think she struggles to see it. She is only young. She just see the huge sums needed for rent, fees, to live off, books etc and worries how she will afford it. It doesn't help that most of her friends have families who will pay (conversations such as "mum and dad say if I get the loan I can put it in the bank for a house deposit" has come up). I feel for her.

OP posts:
Original poster
Almostslimjim · 12/01/2021 09:54

Who needs to know?

Why can’t you just do it and it’s between you and your sister?

I imagine it will be to be honest.

OP posts:
ClareBlue · 12/01/2021 09:55

She is giving the message that she isn't that motivated to go to University. There are a significant percentage of courses that never pay for themselves in future earnings and those that do have to he paid back when you get above the thresholds. Factor in 3 years of lost earnings and experience and university is not always the best choice for purely financial reasons. Obviously earning capacity us not the only reason to go.

But there is a lot of dross in the higher education sector. I would accept her decision at this stage. She might change her mind after being in the workplace for a couple of years, and no harm done.

I don't see any issue with supporting her as the age gap is so large and future children can not really he considered.

TableFlowerss · 12/01/2021 09:56

@Almostslimjim

Who needs to know?

Why can’t you just do it and it’s between you and your sister?

I imagine it will be to be honest.

But it’s no ones business what you do with your money. I get it, I understand but there’s no need to share information that hasn’t been asked if that makes sense
Alexandernevermind · 12/01/2021 09:57

Actually in your shoes I would help. (Not covering tuition fee, the whys and wherefores on that had been done to death.) but certainly in terms of chipping in towards accommodation, living expenses, car, laptop etc.
Take the other siblings' children out of the equation, this is about what your niece needs now. If you have the means to help her that's brilliant.

Alexandernevermind · 12/01/2021 09:58

Sorry, lots of typos! I always send too quickly!!

Iamthewombat · 12/01/2021 09:58

If she was serious about it she’d know that the debt was actually a tax on her future earnings, and she’d also know that her earnings would likely be higher if she was studying the right degree and it enabled her into a lucrative career path

As such, I don’t believe she wants to go and the debt is just an excuse not to.

This. You say that your niece is bright and intelligent. Although I’ve only ever heard one person openly state that their kid was a bit thick, so who knows? But her A levels seem to suggest that she is academic.

She doesn’t lack good advice from her aunt, a doctor, and her uncle, a software engineer, both of whom entered wel-paid careers through taking university degrees. She must know that a degree is the passport to future earnings in her field.

In the nicest possible way, I think this is a teenage tantrum or sulk. I don’t believe for a second that it has anything to do with her having been brought up to never get into debt etc. I’d say, let her work for a year or two then realise for herself that university is the best option for her. By offering money, you are only enabling her behaviour. So don’t.

RandomLondoner · 12/01/2021 09:58

The Student Loan Company pays the fees to the uni. If you want, you can pay the uni directly. This is why the system is unfair, because those with rich parents don’t end up accruing the debt, and hence why a graduate tax would ensure all students are equally affected, regardless of parent wealth.

If their were a graduate tax, the rich parents could just pay that on behalf of the children.

Having said that, my understanding is that it's so unwise not to take out loans that even rich parents shouldn't do it. Giving their child money for any other purpose would make more sense.