To think teachers should be moved up vaccination list..

[Ltdannygreen]

I’m not a teacher just to clarify, but I can’t be the only one who think teachers should be a priority on the vaccination list, not just so kids can get back to school but many are currently working to teach the children of key workers who are on the frontline everyday who still pose a risk. I’m aware that elderly are important, but so are our teachers.

@JogOnTony

But your focus is still on the elderly in hospital beds

I really don't get what your point is?

My focus is on whoever is taking up hospital beds and resources and therefore placing massive strain on the NHS which results in the restrictions we currently have, my focus is on reducing that number so that said restrictions can begin to be eased. It so happens in this case that it isn't, in the main, healthy fit teachers taking up hospital beds, but elderly or those in other vulnerable categories.

I get that. I get all the points you are making despite you being dismissive of mine. I teach and I don't think we should be moved up. What I am saying is I can see why people feel differently whether it makes sense clinically or not. As I've said, different lenses.

@Disneyblue but the statistics don’t support what you’re saying. People over 70 and those who are CEV make up 88% of deaths. They are the ones filling up the hospitals, even taking in to consideration their lower levels of exposure.

If they move teachers up, what about other essential workers like delivery men?

[quote Wheresmykimchi]@Truelymadlydeeplysomeonesmum

I get a bus daily and while they are behind a screen I have yet to see one in a mask.

I might get flamed for this but might the stats be due to the demographic of (usual) bus drivers?[/quote]
I am in London and yes most the deaths were in first lockdown when are elf on a shelf Mayor acted to slowly. The screens took to long to appear.

However drivers are still getting sick now. All the buses that pass me the drivers are wearing masks. I think a lot of them have been frightened by their colleagues deaths.

As for demographics that is something they can't actually help. Like a BAME or older nurse is more likely to die than white or younger nurse. So we need to offer them more protection surely?

@BoomBoomsCousin

^Honestly?

I think the mental health statistics and the impact of certain professions need to have some weight here.

We vaccinate the elderly. That takes months. What happens in the mean time elsewhere?

Which statistics suggest teachers' mental health is more at risk from having to wait for a vaccine than other people's mental health?

Where in that post did I mention teachers?

I said further upthread I think retail staff should be prioritised before us

I don't know a single teacher who is worried about their own welfare . We are worried about that of vulnerable people we are in contact with and our pupils.

@Truelymadlydeeplysomeonesmum I was referring more to their age and health status.

But I agree.

We are worried about that of vulnerable people we are in contact with and our pupils

Whilst I appreciate that, if this vaccine doesnt actually stop you from getting and passing on Covid (which we don't know it does yet) then you are not in any different situation than you are now in terms of the vulnerable people and pupils you come into contact with and the potential to infect them?

No I disagree, not because I don't like teachers but because eradicating the virus is not the primary objective which will get us all back to some sort of normality.

The vaccine does not prevent us getting the virus and passing it on, this has been made clear. Vaccinating teachers as a priority will still allow the virus to spread through schools and back to vulnerable family members who may be seriously ill. Thus delaying the release of pressure on the NHS.

The priority is those who are most likely to end up in hospital with serious illness for a sensible reason. When these people are vaccinated and the hospitals are able to cope then the lockdown can be eased and kids will go back to school.

Note that any vulnerable teachers will be vaccinated in the first phase and any others will have a very low risk of being seriously ill.

@JogOnTony

We are worried about that of vulnerable people we are in contact with and our pupils

Whilst I appreciate that, if this vaccine doesnt actually stop you from getting and passing on Covid (which we don't know it does yet) then you are not in any different situation than you are now in terms of the vulnerable people and pupils you come into contact with and the potential to infect them?

True. (and I was the first to read that letter and go well what is the bloody point if we can still pass it on). But the reality is, whether it makes sense or not , if school staff are vaccinated , schools will return. Course they will. If this was about the risk to the kids then we wouldn't have been working in hubs with no PPE for most of last summer.

I think a lot of the confusion around this subject comes from the fact people think the vaccine literally stops you from getting Covid and therefore being unable to pass it on, not having to isolate and therefore schools remaining open because none of the teachers will ever get Covid.

Unfortunately, that's not the case. It stops you getting severely ill. Young and healthy teachers are not likely to get severely ill and die. Therefore vaccinating them early doesn't actually make any difference to what we are trying to achieve, which is less pressure on hospitals.

Nope, you're definitely not the only one who think that. There's approximately 1 thread every 8 hours saying the same thing!

The JVIC have set the list as it is, not only to save the maximum lives (from everything, not just covid) these top 4 groups will save the top 88% of deaths, drastically improve the situation in the hospitals & allow the NHS to treat those who get it & others for other things.

They have already said an 'occupation' review will be done for the priority for phase 2.

Try reading this from
JVIC
It's really informative & interesting. .

if school staff are vaccinated , schools will return. Course they will

No. Schools will return when those most vulnerable in society are vaccinated.

Think of it this way.

Little Jimmy goes to school with Covid, he's not likely to actually get very ill, he may even me asymptomatic. Jimmy passes Covid onto his teacher Mrs Smith, who again, as a young, healthy woman with no underlying conditions is not likely to get severely ill. Mrs Smith then goes home and passes it onto to her elderly gran who ends up in hospital with severe Covid.

Now the vaccine doesn't actually stop any of those people getting Covid or passing it on. But it does stop the symptoms from becoming severe and fatal.

On that basis, who do you think is most important to vaccinate in that scenario?

@PuttyIn

if school staff are vaccinated , schools will return. Course they will

No. Schools will return when those most vulnerable in society are vaccinated.

Think of it this way.

Little Jimmy goes to school with Covid, he's not likely to actually get very ill, he may even me asymptomatic. Jimmy passes Covid onto his teacher Mrs Smith, who again, as a young, healthy woman with no underlying conditions is not likely to get severely ill. Mrs Smith then goes home and passes it onto to her elderly gran who ends up in hospital with severe Covid.

Now the vaccine doesn't actually stop any of those people getting Covid or passing it on. But it does stop the symptoms from becoming severe and fatal.

On that basis, who do you think is most important to vaccinate in that scenario?

I don't believe that. We were working in total risk from May until last week. We worked hubs with no PPE. Do you honestly think we will be sat at home until everyone is vaccinated?

This whole thing is more than just COVID deaths, what about other medical problems that are getting forgotten. Yes they need beds but from what I’ve read the age bracket for beds needed for COVID patients have actually been mostly 30-60 year olds. I know we are stuck between a rock and everyone has different circumstances and opinions on this, but why is it the necessity of some posters to go above and beyond to try and change someone’s opinion rather than just disagree. If we all thought the same the world would be a boring place. Like many of us think the government are a absolute shit show and many think tories are the best thing to grace this earth. My opinion is simply that I think teachers should be a priority...but apparently that means I want all elderly people to die.

@PuttyIn

if school staff are vaccinated , schools will return. Course they will

No. Schools will return when those most vulnerable in society are vaccinated.

Think of it this way.

Little Jimmy goes to school with Covid, he's not likely to actually get very ill, he may even me asymptomatic. Jimmy passes Covid onto his teacher Mrs Smith, who again, as a young, healthy woman with no underlying conditions is not likely to get severely ill. Mrs Smith then goes home and passes it onto to her elderly gran who ends up in hospital with severe Covid.

Now the vaccine doesn't actually stop any of those people getting Covid or passing it on. But it does stop the symptoms from becoming severe and fatal.

On that basis, who do you think is most important to vaccinate in that scenario?

I appreciate you taking the time (genuinely ) with the scenario , but Jimmy has been coming to school with covid for months and nobody gave a rats arse until what, last week?

@Ltdannygreen

This whole thing is more than just COVID deaths, what about other medical problems that are getting forgotten. Yes they need beds but from what I’ve read the age bracket for beds needed for COVID patients have actually been mostly 30-60 year olds. I know we are stuck between a rock and everyone has different circumstances and opinions on this, but why is it the necessity of some posters to go above and beyond to try and change someone’s opinion rather than just disagree. If we all thought the same the world would be a boring place. Like many of us think the government are a absolute shit show and many think tories are the best thing to grace this earth. My opinion is simply that I think teachers should be a priority...but apparently that means I want all elderly people to die.

As do I apparently

Everyone on this thread has agreed that Granny should get vaccine first anyway.

I don't believe that

You don't believe what?

You're missing the point entirely. You can vaccinate all the school staff tomorrow and it won't stop them passing on Covid to vulnerable people who'll end up in hospital. It wouldn't make a jot of difference to the situation we are currently in nor would it mean schools can just magically reopen.

The restrictions in place right now, including school closures, are in place because hospitals are overwhelmed. Reduce that and things can begin to lift, for example schools reopening.

@PuttyIn

I don't believe that

You don't believe what?

You're missing the point entirely. You can vaccinate all the school staff tomorrow and it won't stop them passing on Covid to vulnerable people who'll end up in hospital. It wouldn't make a jot of difference to the situation we are currently in nor would it mean schools can just magically reopen.

The restrictions in place right now, including school closures, are in place because hospitals are overwhelmed. Reduce that and things can begin to lift, for example schools reopening.

I don't believe we won't go back until the vaccinations are complete.

@PuttyIn

I don't believe that

You don't believe what?

You're missing the point entirely. You can vaccinate all the school staff tomorrow and it won't stop them passing on Covid to vulnerable people who'll end up in hospital. It wouldn't make a jot of difference to the situation we are currently in nor would it mean schools can just magically reopen.

The restrictions in place right now, including school closures, are in place because hospitals are overwhelmed. Reduce that and things can begin to lift, for example schools reopening.

We are not shut because of the overwhelming strain on hospitals. We are shut because of the very realistic fear that someone in a school was going to die and /or that they couldn't predict the new strain. If your theory was true, we wouldn't have been working through lockdown last year.

I don't believe we won't go back until the vaccinations are complete

That wasn't what I said.

What I meant was the main factor in reopening schools isn't going to be vaccinating school staff. It's going to be the most vulnerable i.e. the top categories, being vaccinated and the strain on hospitals being reduced.

It's not as simple as vaccinate school staff and schools can reopen.

This thread has really become ridiculous. It started as a genuine discussion but has become hyperbolic, aggressive and utterly reductive.

For what it's worth, I am a teacher and I don't think we should be prioritised and certainly not anytime soon. Current priority is to release pressure on beds and hospitals. We need a functioning NHS or there will be deaths that could have been easily prevented (covid deaths and others). Later, maybe there could be priority for groups at higher occupational risk (teachers and others too), but this would be incredibly difficult logistically. I would be pissed off if I didn't get the vaccination until after WFH friends (well, would be if I hadn't had covid in December), but it's not the biggest unfairness in this whole situation.

@PuttyIn

I don't believe we won't go back until the vaccinations are complete

That wasn't what I said.

What I meant was the main factor in reopening schools isn't going to be vaccinating school staff. It's going to be the most vulnerable i.e. the top categories, being vaccinated and the strain on hospitals being reduced.

It's not as simple as vaccinate school staff and schools can reopen.

I didn't say that.

This started because I said it has to be about more than stats and I still believe fhat

We are not shut because of the overwhelming strain on hospitals

It is ultimately why schools are shut. It's the ultimate reason for all of the restrictions currently in place.

I'm not suggesting that schools haven't remained open when they shouldn't have. But it is ultimately why we are in lockdown and why schools have also now closed.

@PuttyIn

We are not shut because of the overwhelming strain on hospitals

It is ultimately why schools are shut. It's the ultimate reason for all of the restrictions currently in place.

I'm not suggesting that schools haven't remained open when they shouldn't have. But it is ultimately why we are in lockdown and why schools have also now closed.

I don't agree. But as I said a while ago, it's an emotive issue and one we all view through different lenses.