To think closing nurseries would be disastrous?

[Purgatory2021]

I'm seeing it discussed left right and centre, my post was prompted by television this morning.

For many reasons (none selfish) I think it would be disastrous, but the one that stands out to me the most is people's ability to work.

I'm sure there will be plenty of nurses/HCP's/important key workers who rely on nursery to be able to do their jobs.

Not everybody has family that can step in.

Older primary aged children and secondary age children can fend for themselves to a degree if push came to shove, but you can't do the same with toddlers and babies.

These are latest figures for children who attend nursery and corona virus data

There are too many workplaces open. Far more than we’re open last March. People are being forced to go into work.

Do people not understand that productivity was in the toilet in March? Everything was in flux, lots of staff furloughed, businesses were doing tiny percentages of their usual work.

Now, 10 months in, its business as usual if you want to survive.

@Owl55

These are latest figures for children who attend nursery and corona virus data

Would be interested in if this was similar numbers with chicken pox or hand foot and mouth figures for early years.

As with all data it can be shocking until put into context this is out of how many children which attend early years childcare provisions? I assume this includes all settings as well so school nurseries and childminders.......

Yet you dont see ppl campaigning for early years practicioners to get moved up the vaccine line. And they literally have children climbing over them.

@Torvean32 I’ve signed a petition for nursery staff to get a vaccine. We don’t hear as much about their protection because they are not massively unionised like teachers. I’d like nurseries to stay open for lots of reasons but I’d like the staff to be protected and not fearful.

@Torvean32

Yet you dont see ppl campaigning for early years practicioners to get moved up the vaccine line. And they literally have children climbing over them.

They should be higher priority in my view. I don't understand why nursery staff are always treated so badly. I think teachers should be high priority too but nursery nurses first as they are in such close contact and dealing with bodily fluids daily.

I don't really get why they're open when schools have to close? Surely it could be worked the same way, stay open for key worker children and vulnerable children? Or is this what is happening? Please don't get me wrong, I have children I remember the baby and toddler years well and it is really hard, especially if you're working from home which I imagine is impossible with a toddler. Hmmmm, maybe I've actually just answered my own question. Working from is hard with young primary children who we're expected to teach as well.

owl55

That’s absolutely tiny.
No wonder they’ve kept them open.
I would suggest there were far more cases than that in secondary schools in London alone.

@TheKeatingFive

Schools are legally obliged now to set and ensure school work is being completed

If you tell them that you cannot ensure their/smaller children’s basic safety while wfh, I’m sure you’ll find they lay off. Cc your MP.

Did you see the story about the 18 month old who drowned while his mother was on a conference call?

Yes. So sad. www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9005817/Toddler-drowned-hot-tub-mother-left-door-open-hot-day-inquest-hears.html and www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/dad-warning-daughter-drown-hottub-18210488

@user1472151176

I don't really get why they're open when schools have to close? Surely it could be worked the same way, stay open for key worker children and vulnerable children? Or is this what is happening? Please don't get me wrong, I have children I remember the baby and toddler years well and it is really hard, especially if you're working from home which I imagine is impossible with a toddler. Hmmmm, maybe I've actually just answered my own question. Working from is hard with young primary children who we're expected to teach as well.

Because a) you cannot safely work and care for a baby/toddler at the same time and b) if nurseries shut many of them won’t open again. They need fees to survive, unlike (state) schools.

@FoxtrotSkarloey schools were closed before then. In September, early years settings would have started to have Primary kids as wraparound and holiday care again. I bet it will drop again now it's just early years kids.

And as those numbers above show, there haven't been a massive number of cases within them.

@Smileyaxolotl1

owl55

That’s absolutely tiny.
No wonder they’ve kept them open.
I would suggest there were far more cases than that in secondary schools in London alone.

The numbers relate to the notifications sent to Ofsted not the actual number of cases: If there are multiple reported cases at a setting at one time, a notification can include more than one confirmed case. This means that the number of notifications received does not necessarily correlate with the number of confirmed cases in a setting So if you had an outbreak with a few related cases in a nursery the notification would count as 1.

They should stay open.

I think YABU, it is selfish, my single parent daughter has to pay the full nursery fees whilst her work as a hairdresser is shutdown. She can’t afford to feed herself or her older school age child as she gets no help. Parents working from home may need to have childcare but why should my daughter have to pay when she can’t work. The government is so blind to the to reality they have created.

I don't know I read a break down of our local infection statistics and the age group with the highest percentage of cases were the 20-29 and under 5.

People forget that a lot (probably most) nursery staff also have primary school aged children and we are struggling for childcare too! It is only myself and husband who is a front line worker in a hospital. I have three primary aged children who are all currently learning at home and a 9 month old baby. The nursery where I work has had two positive cases and we have had to close both times and deep clean. It is only a small nursery, but our parents include front line workers such as teachers and nurses. I have actually given up my job for now because it is impossible to work AND look after my own children. So I get the need for childcare as much as the next person, but I have to put my own children first.

@alig99

I think YABU, it is selfish, my single parent daughter has to pay the full nursery fees whilst her work as a hairdresser is shutdown. She can’t afford to feed herself or her older school age child as she gets no help. Parents working from home may need to have childcare but why should my daughter have to pay when she can’t work. The government is so blind to the to reality they have created.

But presumably your daughter will want the space when she goes back to work. Nurseries don't make massive profits usually. If they told parents not to pay most of them would shut down and they might decide not to reopen. That's not to say it isn't rubbish for your daughter because it is but not the nurseries fault.

Just looking again at the official figures where Ofsted have been notified that @Owl55 posted. So between 2/11/20-21/12/20 there were 5007 notifications from EYFS settings due to Covid19 (remember this is just the number of settings it relates to not the actual number of cases).

@alig99 is your daughter employed and receiving furlough? I know my hairdresser is but she has lost income in tips etc. It may be more financially difficult if she is self employed? If people don't pay the nurseries, or the Government don't subsidise them to stay open for critical worker/vulnerable children only, then they also face serious financial problems.

@GrumblyMumblyisnotJumbly unless there is the context of data and spreadsheets available it's not really possible to conclude that (I used to do statistical analysis for a job) as there are too many variables e.g. Is it repeat settings so one bubble one week followed by another bubble, it includes all settings not only private but they haven't provided what the numbers are on active registered settings etc. Unless you have proper data set any numbers can then be analysed a number of different ways. It what makes for great headlines but unless you drill down into the data it doesn't really say much other then there have be cases.

@Scottishskifun that is correct it could include the same setting again making a notification so it indicates that there have been 5007 notifications of Covid19 but does not show how many settings these present across nor how many cases it relates to (both of which would be useful additional information). People upthread were reading it as actual number of cases though which it isn't.

It would be good if they released more comprehensive figures.
It would be really helpful if the ONS date separated out EYFS as they group Age2-School Year6 together - the trend was obviously rising within this group in December but it's impossible to distinguish the trend between primary and pre-school age children.

@Scottishskifun Should say that it indicates that there have been 5007 notifications of Covid19 between Nov and 21st Dec but does not show how many settings these present across nor how many cases it relates to (both of which would be useful additional information).