To think closing nurseries would be disastrous?

[Purgatory2021]

I'm seeing it discussed left right and centre, my post was prompted by television this morning.

For many reasons (none selfish) I think it would be disastrous, but the one that stands out to me the most is people's ability to work.

I'm sure there will be plenty of nurses/HCP's/important key workers who rely on nursery to be able to do their jobs.

Not everybody has family that can step in.

Older primary aged children and secondary age children can fend for themselves to a degree if push came to shove, but you can't do the same with toddlers and babies.

I agree with those saying we need a cost benefit analysis. Not just 'nurseries are a bit like schools and we've closed schools so we should therefore close nurseries'.

For a start, the childcare bubbles that would form would likely lead to more spread as when swapping children the parents would be tempted to e.g. pop into their mum's for a careful cup of tea - whereas at nursery it's all very carefully managed - and even though the children are mixing it's pretty well established by now that children aren't major spreaders especially not to each other. I just think it will bring the NHS to its knees as workers have to juggle childcare and it is not the solution. Looking after a 6 year old is not the same as a 1 year old.

It's really difficult for so very many people but as long as a significant number of people choose to not follow the rules then closing nurseries might have to happen on a national level.
Yes, small children seem to not be affected but if staff and their families are infected/isolating?

Plenty closed during first lockdown and didn’t reopen. Do it again and we’re wrecking this sector and women’s role in the workplace for a long time to come

It doesn’t change the stark situation the country is facing. Lives are not less important than livelihoods. It’s also not a simple case of ‘nurseries’ it’s non essential worker parents then being able to physically go to work. It’s extra people on the roads doing the ‘nursery run’. It’s the ripple effect and false sense of normality that having nursery’s open creates.

Also I doubt the multiple posters who work in nursery’s and have posted about catching covid from kids of being caught up in outbreaks would agree with you that it’s ‘not an issue’.

• my posts are getting sloppy as I’m breast feeding

@pumpertrumper except for the people who need their livelihoods to feed their family. Issues from covid are not the only factor that has to be considered.

The government has consistently failed at making quick decisions for quick and decisive actions. Lots of people are just not taking the pandemic seriously enough. What is needed is some drastic action now to try and contain the virus. I'm afraid if that means short term pain of nurseries closing (to all but essential front line key workers) that also needs to happen. I think it's the right thing on balance because I'd rather some short term pain of trying to do my work with as much flexibility as possible whilst also looking after my toddler (as I've done since March) rather than this pandemic going on for longer and longer.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

Unfortunately it needs to happen.

Why? What data do you have to back up that quote?

If our nursery goes key worker children only again (which would include mine fwiw) they will go bust. Said, but true. Without childcare for my 3 year old, I will no longer be able to man a bubble at the primary school I work at. 🤷

We have very high rates here at the moment, but there have been zero cases in staff or pupils at the nursery/preschool and one solitary case in primary.

If nurseries proved to be high points of transmission like schools, I would understand their closure. But they haven't been. The govt were quick to close them last time around so why wouldn't they this time, if there was an issue?

I think the top 4 vulnerable categories need to get vaxxed first, then the less vulnerable by risky occupation.

If our nursery goes key worker children only again (which would include mine fwiw) they will go bust. Said, but true. Without childcare for my 3 year old, I will no longer be able to man a bubble at the primary school I work at.

This is the point so many seem to not be grasping. If they are closed then many nurseries simply wont be there when things get back up and running and subsequently lots of key workers will have to give up their jobs to provide childcare.

I hope they don't close, it would be such a waste to lose so many nhs staff, teacher and key workers. Not to mention the huge loss of childminder and nursery worker jobs.

I said it earlier but seeing as this thread is going around in circles - there are plenty of other things which could be done to reduce transmission such as closing playgrounds and takeaway coffee shops where ADULTS are congregating before nurseries should close.

Absolutely

Pumpertrumper To be fair, If you’ve been on mat leave since Christmas and have been using annual leave, you’ve not really experienced weeks on end of juggling small children and work. Many of us on here have and are a bit scarred by it, have had near misses re safety, have seen impacts on mental well-being of children while knowing the tolerance from employers is not what it was.

@Pumpertrumper is right. It's a shit situation to have to juggle toddlers and babies AND wfh. I know cos I'm doing it!!!!! I am wfh with a 3yo and 14mo and no help from grandparents or aunties or anyone. Just me -and cbeebies-.

It's hard and stressful and a juggle and my flat is a mess and we're all going a bit loopy BUT if doing this helps to get us back to normal quicker then yes I will take my child out of nursery (even though DP is a keyworker- I dispute his essentialdom though!) and keep them home and not go out. Because doing that will literally help to save lives.

But I also agree that playgrounds and coffee shops etc should also be closed. If they're open people will go to them! It should be home delivery only.

I agree that takeaways, playgrounds should close. Although Ive been too exhasted to move so confess to getting a subway dropped off last night.
Some of my lovely nursery parents and neighbours have rallied round though and promised a 'meals on wheels' service this week, Im so appreciative.

Pumpertrumper To be fair, If you’ve been on mat leave since Christmas and have been using annual leave, you’ve not really experienced weeks on end of juggling small children and work. Many of us on here have and are a bit scarred by it, have had near misses re safety, have seen impacts on mental well-being of children while knowing the tolerance from employers is not what it was

@Tiquismiquis
No, I just had a newborn (first) 10 days before March lockdown, pretty much lost my DH over night and spent months alone physically recovering, terrified for DH’s life and struggling in near isolation. Yup...I had it easy. You guys with admin jobs from home and a 2 year old were the real victims

Let’s not devalue other people’s experiences shall we. I had to drop to PT hours so my mat cover could be kept on (because I know I simply can’t meet my employers needs for the foreseeable) I had to negotiate all that having been totally out of the loop for months and facing almost certain upcoming redundancies.

I’m hardly in an ideal situation.

Oh god. Please no. It's totally unfair on toddlers to be left to their own devices (iPads) whilst their parents work.

@Nightmanagerfan

Chris whitty this morning: “parents should avoid sending children to nurseries if they can”.

I hate this style of communication- either shut them or don’t rather than blaming parents for sending kids in!

Chris Whitty going to pay my invoice for me because the nursery has made it clear, keep kid home if you're scared but you still have to pay

Whose devaluing who with "admin jobs and a 2 yr old" comments?

There are plenty more things that should close before nurseries. As I said before, if they demonstrate a link to increased transmission like they did with some schools, then fair enough. But as yet, that hasn't happened.

I had to drop to PT hours so my mat cover could be kept on (because I know I simply can’t meet my employers needs for the foreseeable)

But you must recognise that this is a position of privilege.

If your employer had not facilitated you. And/or you needed your full salary to pay the mortgage/bills, wouldn’t life look a bit different?

You guys with admin jobs from home and a 2 year old were the real victims hmm

What makes you say admin job?

Pumpertrumper I didn’t want to upset you and I’ve acknowledged it must have been tough given your DH’s role: im sure he’s seen some awful things. It is rubbish for many people but it was more to say that your experience will have shaped your view re nursery and others (with different experiences) will have shaped it in different ways. Lockdown coincided with a period of mat leave for me so I do understand the isolation (and think it would have been much harder for people with newborns) but mat leave was a walk in a the park compared to working with two under 4s.

@MarshaBradyo

Not a negative of admin jobs I’m in an admin role myself. They are arguably the easiest to do from home though that’s why I used that. Pretty much everyone I know in an admin role was WFH in March. It’s the obvious ‘can be done from home’ job.

Pumper the problem is ime is that jobs that are wfh but not admin often involve the day in zoom meetings with clients. This means you can’t look after a two year old in any way. They can’t be noisy in the room and if they are out of it they can hurt themselves.

So if nurseries shut the solution can’t be to just muddle through. There needs to be childcare

If you cant work you have to go on Universal Credit like millions of others

The unpalatable truth