To think closing nurseries would be disastrous?

[Purgatory2021]

I'm seeing it discussed left right and centre, my post was prompted by television this morning.

For many reasons (none selfish) I think it would be disastrous, but the one that stands out to me the most is people's ability to work.

I'm sure there will be plenty of nurses/HCP's/important key workers who rely on nursery to be able to do their jobs.

Not everybody has family that can step in.

Older primary aged children and secondary age children can fend for themselves to a degree if push came to shove, but you can't do the same with toddlers and babies.

@Backbee

PLEASE help them to stay safe by ONLY using nurseries when you really need to - examine your own conscience and use your nursery accordingly, without dismissing the needs of others.

Is your nursery offering a fee rebate or a fee freeze to those who choose to keep their child home? Or do you still expect them to pay what's usually £50+ a day for a service they aren't using because they have been guilted into making that decision? I'm sure if nurseries offered that many more would keep their children at home.

Completly. I'm living in fear that nurseries close completely and I will lose my job. I'm saving every penny I can incase this happens. Sorry, but I'm in the mindset that I don't want to be paying for anything I don't use. If I had option to waiver fee when I get a day off work I would take it.

@Backbee

PLEASE help them to stay safe by ONLY using nurseries when you really need to - examine your own conscience and use your nursery accordingly, without dismissing the needs of others.

Is your nursery offering a fee rebate or a fee freeze to those who choose to keep their child home? Or do you still expect them to pay what's usually £50+ a day for a service they aren't using because they have been guilted into making that decision? I'm sure if nurseries offered that many more would keep their children at home.

Exactly whilst I fully understand nurseries are businesses and they obviously want as much income as possible in these uncertain times they cannot have it both ways. If the nursery want people to keep their children at home they need to not expect payment.

It's also no good saying your money can be used for future sessions because the likelihood is the nursery wont be able to provide these as many will have closed or the parent will have had to find alternative childcare so they wont be needed.

Yes, regarding future sessions. If the nurseries close and I lose my job, there will be no future sessions.

Exactly to the PP about nurseries still wanting paying. I can't justify not sending my DS whilst still paying for it. I'm following all the rules and the government want nursery kids in, it is not fair for nurseries to be guilt tripping parents.

I don't really get why it's ok to suggest that women give up their jobs and go on Universal Credit but not ok to say that single adults with no kids could go without seeing their support bubble for a while or couples with a baby under 1.

I do get - a family member committed suicide due to lockdown - mental health issues but I don't really get why support bubbles are untouchable but nurseries are fair game. I suspect part of it is that many people basically think women shouldn't have proper jobs when they have young children anyway.

I would support similar messaging on bubbles - consider whether it's really vital that you see your bubble in the next few weeks and consider outside walks.

In this whole thread, none of the posters calling for EY closures or keyworker-only provision seem to have given a credible counter-argument to the point that closing nurseries would be counterproductive in terms of spread and would be economically unviable. We can only hope the poster claiming to have hired an au pair to cover her ICU shifts was a fantasist.

I can't teach with a two year old at home. Doctors and nurses can't work with babies or toddlers at home. This isn't the same as people struggling along with work and a 6 year old. You cannot work, outside the home or from home with a baby or toddler who needs care. It is not safe to do so.

If a nursery decides to shut down permanently because they find the business is no longer viable, they still need to pay back the funding they received for that term.

The more I read about this issue and think about it, it seems to me it mostly comes down to funding.

Most of the issues that come with shutting nurseries are related to funding. As has been pointed out many times on this thread, the difference between schools and nurseries is that nurseries are predominantly businesses. Lots of nurseries can’t remain open purely for keyworker children. It’s just not financially viable. So shutting them will create childcare problems for keyworkers, as it did last time; and will push some others out of business, as it did last time.

It was ridiculous for Whitty to say that parents shouldn’t use nurseries if they don’t need to. He doesn’t understand how the sector works. As we all know, nursery isn’t a service you only pay for when you use it. Parents can’t be expected to pay voluntarily for a service that they aren’t receiving. Nurseries can’t afford to accept a sudden massive drop in income and still remain open (bear in mind that nursery workers are not well paid as it is).

Fun fact - we have some of the most expensive childcare in the world and we’re one of only two OECD countries where more than 50% of funding for early years comes from parents’ pockets. It seems to me this is a bind produced largely by successive governments’ refusal to fund the sector adequately.

@Buddytheelf85

The more I read about this issue and think about it, it seems to me it mostly comes down to funding.

Most of the issues that come with shutting nurseries are related to funding. As has been pointed out many times on this thread, the difference between schools and nurseries is that nurseries are predominantly businesses. Lots of nurseries can’t remain open purely for keyworker children. It’s just not financially viable. So shutting them will create childcare problems for keyworkers, as it did last time; and will push some others out of business, as it did last time.

It was ridiculous for Whitty to say that parents shouldn’t use nurseries if they don’t need to. He doesn’t understand how the sector works. As we all know, nursery isn’t a service you only pay for when you use it. Parents can’t be expected to pay voluntarily for a service that they aren’t receiving. Nurseries can’t afford to accept a sudden massive drop in income and still remain open (bear in mind that nursery workers are not well paid as it is).

Fun fact - we have some of the most expensive childcare in the world and we’re one of only two OECD countries where more than 50% of funding for early years comes from parents’ pockets. It seems to me this is a bind produced largely by successive governments’ refusal to fund the sector adequately.

I couldn’t agree more with your last point. The existence of settings that both educate and develop children and, mainly, allow parents and especially women to work should not be at the mercy of business owners deciding that their profits are worth the hassle.

Yanbu
A child has died because of a parent trying to WFH (not blaming her, just pointing out it's not possible to work and keep a child safe). How many of us have balconies etc/live in tower blocks? It only takes 1 second of looking away in normal circs and now parents (let's face it mums) are concentrating for hours and hours the accident rate will increase.

I've seen on Instagram that people are flying on holiday even yesterday there are plenty more things that could be shut down to keep children safe.

I actually think under 6s should be in school anyway as I don't think they are particularly safe on their own either and case by case all others

@JanewaysBun

Yanbu A child has died because of a parent trying to WFH (not blaming her, just pointing out it's not possible to work and keep a child safe). How many of us have balconies etc/live in tower blocks? It only takes 1 second of looking away in normal circs and now parents (let's face it mums) are concentrating for hours and hours the accident rate will increase.

I've seen on Instagram that people are flying on holiday even yesterday there are plenty more things that could be shut down to keep children safe.

I actually think under 6s should be in school anyway as I don't think they are particularly safe on their own either and case by case all others

This is really sad, but parents aren't getting it. You pay for childcare to keep your children safe, it's not rocket science to think you can work and keep them safe, or childcare workers could just leave the kids to it. I know it's tough and people need/want to work, but your kids come first. You have to do what's right for the kids, sometimes that's claiming UC or reducing hours, expecting a dh to do his share of parenting. There will be more deaths if parents continue to try to do it all.

Unlike schools most nurseries are private businesses. If they close now and can't reopen in a few months time because of it, a vast proportion (mainly women) of the workforce would find they couldn't go back to work, even once restrictions are lifted.

You have to do what's right for the kids, sometimes that's claiming UC

Yes, I feel sure ‘what’s right for the kids’ would involve not being able to pay rent/mortgage and making them homeless.

We all know that this is nothing but positive for their outcomes.

It’s also not safe. They are shut here in scotland.

It is only a matter of time before a baby or toddler dies because their parent is on a call

You have to do what's right for the kids

Ok if children are put first nurseries won’t close.

Nursery age is definitely not harder than having Young primary age child who isn’t allowed to go to school- still so young/immature/needing pretty constant supervision but also now basic level of homeschooling . For me nothing is harder than looking after primary age kids needing homeschooling but also needing supervision and coaching through their work too.

For me nothing is harder than looking after primary age kids needing homeschooling but also needing supervision and coaching through their work too.

You can not do the homeschooling though, if it gets too much.

You can’t not meet basic needs/safeguarding of toddlers.

Agreed. You can't safely leave a toddler to their own devices.

Schools are legally obliged now to set and ensure school work is being completed. My school have made it very clear they expect all set work to be completed. So no, the pressure is not less.

Schools are legally obliged now to set and ensure school work is being completed

If you tell them that you cannot ensure their/smaller children’s basic safety while wfh, I’m sure you’ll find they lay off. Cc your MP.

Did you see the story about the 18 month old who drowned while his mother was on a conference call?

This is really sad, but parents aren't getting it.
You pay for childcare to keep your children safe, it's not rocket science to think you can work and keep them safe, or childcare workers could just leave the kids to it.
I know it's tough and people need/want to work, but your kids come first.
You have to do what's right for the kids, sometimes that's claiming UC or reducing hours, expecting a dh to do his share of parenting.
There will be more deaths if parents continue to try to do it all.

Do you have any sense of how arrogant you sound? And how ignorant?

Telling the school your primary school child hasn't completed their maths homework because you've been too busy working is not ideal but it's ok.

Having to take your nursery age child to A&E with a head injury from falling down the stairs or jumping off the sofa when you were busy on a call is definitely not ok.

There is a grey area for 4-5 year olds. I would say that, although probably not as hazardous as a 1-2 year old with no sense of danger, it is still very, very suboptimal from a safety perspective to leave that age group unattended for long periods. It's tough that parents are being asked to do that.

I think it’s bizarre that a 4 year old can’t attend reception for an actual education but nursery is open for younger 4 year olds. 🥴 Fair enough if your a key worker, but should be the same rules across the board. It’s not a lockdown if most places are still open.

@upsidedownwavylegs

*This is really sad, but parents aren't getting it. You pay for childcare to keep your children safe, it's not rocket science to think you can work and keep them safe, or childcare workers could just leave the kids to it. I know it's tough and people need/want to work, but your kids come first. You have to do what's right for the kids, sometimes that's claiming UC or reducing hours, expecting a dh to do his share of parenting. There will be more deaths if parents continue to try to do it all.*

Do you have any sense of how arrogant you sound? And how ignorant?

No, just realistic. Too many people are putting jobs before their children. I don't believe they are all just existing to get by, tbh, although I know some are and I sympathise. Your career is not more important than your children, their safety is more important than your career. Parents should look within and get their priorities right, there's a pandemic and plenty are likely to lose these jobs in the ensuing recession anyway. It shouldn't be down to women to cope with all this, when there are two of you your jobs are not more important than the lives of others.