To think closing nurseries would be disastrous?

[Purgatory2021]

I'm seeing it discussed left right and centre, my post was prompted by television this morning.

For many reasons (none selfish) I think it would be disastrous, but the one that stands out to me the most is people's ability to work.

I'm sure there will be plenty of nurses/HCP's/important key workers who rely on nursery to be able to do their jobs.

Not everybody has family that can step in.

Older primary aged children and secondary age children can fend for themselves to a degree if push came to shove, but you can't do the same with toddlers and babies.

I’m not saying I don’t empathise or understand that there needs to be a balance between lives and livelihoods. Don’t think I don’t understand how shit it is for those struggling, facing losing homes, living in poverty (I grew up firmly on the breadline).

The situation in hospitals is dire. People are dying in droves alone and scared. If you feel justified arguing nursery’s should be open that’s your business and I understand that for some it’s worth the risk to keep their homes and jobs unaltered.

My issue is that all those people making those choices, going to their non essential jobs and sending their kids to 75% full schools. They’re gonna expect an ICU bed when the worst happens and people like my DH to risk their lives to care for them

@DeeCeeCherry

If you cant work you have to go on Universal Credit like millions of others

The unpalatable truth

And probably lose homes.

I’m a key worker but my nursery shut altogether first time around so I imagine it would do the same this time. I simply can’t do my job and look after DD, 2, so I guess I’d need to ask for unpaid leave? I feel very stressed about it.

I totally understand why people are saying close nurseries but then I see my village high street packed with people at the weekend - loads of cafes doing food stalls - and the local park also full to bursting, many families meeting up against the rules.

This country has handled Covid so badly and if nurseries shut it’s going to be mainly women who suffer. Makes me angry.

My issue is that all those people making those choices, going to their non essential jobs and sending their kids to 75% full schools.

Schools are separate to nurseries and should still be viewed differently. Nurseries don’t distinguish re above as schools do plus cases are a tiny proportion. Chris Whitty is good on this.

Pumper is he due the vaccine soon?

My issue is that all those people making those choices, going to their non essential jobs and sending their kids to 75% full schools

They’re probably thinking who will pay their rent/mortgage if they don’t? And what impact long term poverty and even homelessness will have on their children?

I think these are reasonable concerns, do you?

I doubt anyone advocating giving up jobs and going on UC on here is actually having to contemplate that. One of those ‘easy to say’ positions.

I have a 5 year old, I don't think him being off school is much easier than a nursery aged child tbh so yes I agree it's disastrous for anyone who needs to work. I've thankfully got grandparent support this time round but I suffered very badly during the first lockdown due to working whilst looking after 2 children. I'd only just managed to recover my working position.

@MarshaBradyo

Surely the answer is tolerance/altered mind sets.

Since lockdown I’ve lost count of how many calls I’ve had (NHS, customer service, emergency tradesmen, my own workplace) which have included ‘just a minute my DD’s dropped her toy/the tv has frozen, I’m just changing my son’

I don’t bat an eyelid it is what it is. I get ‘clients’ might find it unprofessional but in the midst of a global pandemic, with vaccines already making the rounds, surely a bit of understanding is expected!

I’m afraid not anymore. Not when the sector is facing more redundancies each day and maintaining clients are key to those who are surviving. They don’t need a ‘clients’ ‘ ‘ btw they are pretty much the reason a business can exist.

Maybe a one off interruption would be passable but that’s not what it is if you’re actively doing the childcare.

@MarshaBradyo

Maybe a one off interruption would be passable but that’s not what it is if you’re actively doing the childcare.

This. I’m trying to write code, manipulate and interrogate data, create cost forecast models. Not really possible with a 23 month old smashing his hands on the keyboard or climbing on/falling off stuff.

I’m lucky because I have a good employer but I’m getting a bit sick of people saying ‘why don’t people just drop their hours’ or give the child to the grandparents’

I don’t have any grandparents nearby to hand my child to plus they’re very elderly and cannot handle my nursery aged child for an hour let along all day 5 days a week. He has so much energy even I can barely do that. I’m also in a role where I can’t just drop hours. I’m busier than ever partly due to Covid. I’m not in a pin money job to give me something to do.

I have friends with arsehole employers. Forcing them to go in because they don’t trust them WFH etc. They will never be given flexibility and may lose their jobs.

To the person who suggests all workers with childcare issues should just quit and claim universal credit. Who do you think pays for this? It’s working taxpayers. If the tax base is reduced, UC will probably drop. I don’t think some people understand how the economy works at all.

The government allowing Christmas mixing and keeping London and the South East in Tier 2, not because they prefer southerners but because they wanted the cash cow to keep generating tax revenue and profits regardless of whether half of the region ended up in ICU is what started this surge.

Non compliance is compounding this. Get people to comply with the current rules first and if that doesn’t work, close parks, police supermarkets, close takeaway coffee shops, have beat bobbies breaking up congregations in the street, stop and question people driving in cars with their entire families as they clearly aren’t going to work. All these things should happen before we force people (mainly women) into a situation where they will potentially lose their jobs.

To the person who suggests all workers with childcare issues should just quit and claim universal credit. Who do you think pays for this? It’s working taxpayers. If the tax base is reduced, UC will probably drop. I don’t think some people understand how the economy works at all.

Yes, and also - where do people think the money to fund the NHS comes from?

I wish people would think twice before wishing mass unemployment on the country. It’s a really ugly thing and comes as a package with other ugly things, like reduced funding for all public services, higher crime rates, plummeting house prices and negative equity for homeowners.

And those same people advocating all workers claim UC will probably be online next year calling them all benefit scroungers and starting threads like ‘shall I report my neighbour for benefit fraud - I saw she had a big tv’.

Also the same people encouraging working parents to take their kid out of nursery and strap them in a buggy all day whilst they do back to back Teams calls were probably the same lot starting threads pre-Covid like ‘shall I contact social services and tell them my neighbour leaves her baby in a car seat for 2 hours a day to scream in another room’.

Don’t even know where to start with the poster who suggested everyone should get an Au Pair like her.

They should at least make it for families with two working parents only. I know a sahm who’s sending her child to nursery for a few mornings a week because she enjoys the break. 😕

My son went to nursery today. It was bliss being able to work without the 3 year old. My son loves nursery too. We all had covid over Christmas. We have antibodies, and so for us as a family it is safe.

@Skysblue

They should at least make it for families with two working parents only. I know a sahm who’s sending her child to nursery for a few mornings a week because she enjoys the break. 😕

And at the moment she’s perfectly entitled to do that. Not having a job does not mean you aren’t entitled to nursery care, I assume she’s paying for it. Stop being such a judged cow.

@Tellmetruth4

I’m lucky because I have a good employer but I’m getting a bit sick of people saying ‘why don’t people just drop their hours’ or give the child to the grandparents’

I don’t have any grandparents nearby to hand my child to plus they’re very elderly and cannot handle my nursery aged child for an hour let along all day 5 days a week. He has so much energy even I can barely do that. I’m also in a role where I can’t just drop hours. I’m busier than ever partly due to Covid. I’m not in a pin money job to give me something to do.

I have friends with arsehole employers. Forcing them to go in because they don’t trust them WFH etc. They will never be given flexibility and may lose their jobs.

To the person who suggests all workers with childcare issues should just quit and claim universal credit. Who do you think pays for this? It’s working taxpayers. If the tax base is reduced, UC will probably drop. I don’t think some people understand how the economy works at all.

The government allowing Christmas mixing and keeping London and the South East in Tier 2, not because they prefer southerners but because they wanted the cash cow to keep generating tax revenue and profits regardless of whether half of the region ended up in ICU is what started this surge.

Non compliance is compounding this. Get people to comply with the current rules first and if that doesn’t work, close parks, police supermarkets, close takeaway coffee shops, have beat bobbies breaking up congregations in the street, stop and question people driving in cars with their entire families as they clearly aren’t going to work. All these things should happen before we force people (mainly women) into a situation where they will potentially lose their jobs.

100% agree with this

Agree with @problembottom and others unthread - yes, we probably do need further tightening of the rules, but nurseries should not be the next things to close (and neither should the early years in primary imo, but that’s another debate).

Start with the garden centres, playgrounds, queues for takeaway coffee, people taking whole families to the supermarkets, anti lockdown parties and other rule breakers I see every time I go outside!

And us nursery staff who have isolated except for work are still at the mercy of others

@GoldenPoppy

And us nursery staff who have isolated except for work are still at the mercy of others

But that's the point. People aren't saying keep nurseries open and lock your neighbours. If everyone abided by the rules, you wouldn't be at any significant risk

And us nursery staff who have isolated except for work are still at the mercy of others
But that's the point. People aren't saying keep nurseries open and lock your neighbours. If everyone abided by the rules, you wouldn't be at any significant risk

But it’s clear people are not following the rules and staff come into contact with as many adults as children by going in to work. A team of early years workers cannot distance from each other when working with active young children in free flow play who often need close support - many have already pointed out the challenges of caring for even one young child at home.
And many staff ARE in the age group now filling the ICU’s and many younger staff have health concerns, live with vulnerable families etc.
I don’t believe nurseries should be closed to all but Chris Whitty yesterday said parents should only use nurseries if they absolutely needed to - he’s now been brought into line by the spin doctors - we know children are at low risk but adults in settings ARE at significant risk. EY professionals know this and they are not work-shy - they are fearful. PLEASE help them to stay safe by ONLY using nurseries when you really need to - examine your own conscience and use your nursery accordingly, without dismissing the needs of others. The financial implications of all this are secondary to protecting people’s lives and health.

Okay, but like any other business or service, why should parents have to pay for something that they are not using?

PLEASE help them to stay safe by ONLY using nurseries when you really need to - examine your own conscience and use your nursery accordingly, without dismissing the needs of others.

Is your nursery offering a fee rebate or a fee freeze to those who choose to keep their child home? Or do you still expect them to pay what's usually £50+ a day for a service they aren't using because they have been guilted into making that decision? I'm sure if nurseries offered that many more would keep their children at home.