Group on FB

[UnshakenNeedsStirring]

So I joined a group of women on FB. To support each other during lockdown and generally have a chat and a nice time online. Ater a week or so the admin changed a photo of the group to one with 5 women holding hands, the pic was taken from back, so no faces. IT was a painting or so from 50's I think or could've been done in retro style. I pointed out that the picture was not inclusive as it was only showing white women and didn't have other women of colour or ethnic minorities. I got a lot of abuse back. Was I wrong? I am a bit shocked and disheartened that in 2021 I had to raise this and no one really was bothered and nearly all the women asked me to shut up and not talk about it

@BillyIsMyBunn spot on.

@allCalishataFolkart thank you!

@WetPaint4 I asked and got flamed for it unfortunately.

The thing is there was a member of the group asking for a diverse picture specifically for a black woman to be included. It meant a lot to that person. I am a white woman. I cannot even begin to imagine how shit it must be to receive casual racism every single day. So when a black person directly asks me to change my actions to make them feel more included I will, within reason, do it.

As a white woman how can I possibly know what is or is not hurtful to a black woman.

It would have taken the whole of 1 minute to change the picture. If there was a wheelchair user in the group the image could be changed a little while later to include a wheelchair user.

YANBU OP I hope in the future many of the posters will look back on this thread and be deeply ashamed of themselves

@nineniiiine I am shocked by some of the responses too, so many have commented to say, its just a photo, it doesn't matter, snowflake....but it matters to me. We have a long way to go to show we are a fair and society , this thread has shown that

@GinAndTonicOnIt thank you

My blood is BOILING at all the posters on here saying you have been too harsh with your responses on here.

Do these posters STILL not get it?

The OP is so sick of casual racism. Rightly so. I am sick to bloody death of people playing it down andI'm white, so no wonder black people are sick of this shit.

Would it have taken much effort at all to change a fucking photo? NO.

BLACK PEOPLE MATTER. Their feelings MATTER. A lifetime of white privileged mean a simple photo may not matter to you, but it matters to others. Who are you to say it doesn't.

@CalishataFolkart well try thinking it through and apply some critical thinking. If you’re interested in true liberalism try reading Jack Parsons’s “freedom is a two edge sword” and especially consider the passages re collusion in the limitations of freedom. It’s an amazing piece, well ahead of its time regarding the equality of women, ethnic minorities and gay people. Just think a straight, white man in the 40s/50s, one of the most important people in the space race, having a better grasp on equality than 21st century l”liberals”.

Sorry do swearing of your thread @UnshakenNeedsStirring

@Jj2431
Said the very angry 'it's not all about me' person..called you person there just in case she is offensive

I go by the pronoun, she. Im not angry, disappointed yes, I have a reason to be. Why are you being so deliberately obtuse?

Not unreasonable of you to ask for the picture to be changed. No point being part of the group if not one person could stand up for you though, that's sad.
If I was admin of a group like that I would have just changed the pic, only takes 2 mins to find a stock photo from google.
And yes, things like that do need to be addressed, its little things like that which cultivate into larger widespread societal oppression. Not just of poc, but all minority groups.
It might not have been an issue to others in the group but if this lady felt it was unfair then address it, christ, it would have taken 2 minutes to change.
I dont think it was the op who created drama, it was the collective reactions of the group which amounts to drama.

Does everything have to reflect everyone ? Are shirt women represented , are disabled represented , are ginger haired people represented , are done wearing glasses ? Etc etc.
It's just a bloody picture

@GinAndTonicOnIt thank you for understanding my frustrations. Unfortunately, people like us are in a minority. Just look at the comments on this thread! You would've been horrified if you would've seen the thread on FB. Literally tens of women jumped straight an asked me to stop talking about this. I have just checked and they havent changed the photos. That speaks volumes.

@maddy68 it matters to me.

@Anthilda I dislike drama, I just raised the issue of not having an inclusive photo and got attacked. I left the group after half an hour of futile comments on the thread.

To the op though, it wasnt just a picture, it was an example of exclusion, which she has possibly experienced throughout her whole life.

Does everything have to reflect everyone ? Are shirt women represented , are disabled represented , are ginger haired people represented , are done wearing glasses ? Etc etc.

No everything does not have to reflect everyone.

But look at the context here. It's a group for a specific group of women who feel alone in a pandemic. One person who was in a specific minority group asked for a small, easy to make change to the profile picture. That would have made this one person feel welcome and brought comfort of sorts which in these times is so much more necessary.

You as a white person will NOT be affected by these situations in the same way. Your entire life you have been receiving white privilege. Free from the same micro aggressions the OP faces every. Single. Day. Who are you to tell a black person what they may or may not be offended or upset by?

That is seriously shit op. It is a shame it took so long for them to show their true colours, when you had invested in the group for all these months. I hope that you can find a group that has people you have more in common with next time. I would have left too by the way.

I see all the cunty Karens are out in force tonight.

thank you for understanding my frustrations. Unfortunately, people like us are in a minority. Just look at the comments on this thread! You would've been horrified if you would've seen the thread on FB. Literally tens of women jumped straight an asked me to stop talking about this. I have just checked and they havent changed the photos. That speaks volumes.

OP please know that there are white people out there listening. Learning. Changing.

Shame on you all of the racist Mumsnet posters in this thread. Casual racism IS racism. It makes YOU a racist.

Start LISTENING to black women. Really listen. Change your ways. Then maybe they won't be so 'harsh' or 'angry'.

[quote Ihatefish]@CalishataFolkart well try thinking it through and apply some critical thinking. If you’re interested in true liberalism try reading Jack Parsons’s “freedom is a two edge sword” and especially consider the passages re collusion in the limitations of freedom. It’s an amazing piece, well ahead of its time regarding the equality of women, ethnic minorities and gay people. Just think a straight, white man in the 40s/50s, one of the most important people in the space race, having a better grasp on equality than 21st century l”liberals”.[/quote]
“I’ve known you for ten minutes and enjoyed none of them. I’m not going to start doing assignments for you now.”

I have thought it through. OP asked that the photo be more reflective of the group membership.

You conclude that she was signalling her moral superiority and that everyone now hates her.

I gave an example of a way she could have phrased it that would have led to that conclusion, but as that’s not what she said I’m asking how you got there.

Giving me an “ahhh, work it out for yourself,” answer doesn’t move the discussion forward. If anything it looks like you’re signalling your perceived intellectual superiority.

@CalishataFolkart

It’s so depressing that a reasonable request - “Can the photo be a bit more inclusive please?” - is met with a dramatic throwing up of hands, eye-rolling, “Oh you can’t say ANYTHING nowadays!”, “There’s a PANDEMIC on you know?!”, “they are volunteers! Should they scour the Internet for a photo that includes EVERYONE?!” reaction.

Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good. Of course a picture cannot include every single iteration of humanity but the attitude of, “Welp, it’ll just have to be all white again then,” is a cop out.

Totally agree. OP YANBU. I honestly thought I had seen it all on Mumsnet but this thread has been an eye opener. So many shameful responses.

Does everything have to reflect everyone ? Are shirt women represented , are disabled represented , are ginger haired people represented , are done wearing glasses ? Etc etc.

Of course not everything has to reflect everyone, but if you have a photo of 5 women there is an opportunity to represent up to 5 different demographics, to literally only represent a single demographic (white woman) seems particularly lazy. If it was a photo of a diverse group of women but the OP was complaining a specific demographic was missed out (Eg: it had a range of ethnicities but not somebody visibly ethnically Chinese) I could understand the argument that it’s impossible to include literally everybody, but this photo didn’t include anything but white women. From what the OP has said she raised that it didn’t include any POC/ ethnic minorities, not that it specifically didn’t include her ethnicity. It wouldn’t be hard to choose a photo with some diversity and even if it can’t literally represent every group using a diverse photo will at least show that the group is catering to a range of women from different backgrounds.

My advice is that you don't talk about it.

It's a picture on social media, not a Government message on billboards across the country. Such a trivial thing shouldn't carry such importance while there are real racial discrimination fights to be had.

@CalishataFolkart Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good. Of course a picture cannot include every single iteration of humanity but the attitude of, “Well, it’ll just have to be all white again then,” is a cop out.

^^Exactly this - "oh it's way too difficult to find a picture without just white people in it!"

It really fucking isn't.