Excluded from family because we didn’t go for Xmas lunch

[Glenorma]

DH, his two sisters and his mother have a “Family” chat where they message each other with photos of the grandkids, info about what’s happening in their lives, plan meetups (when that was allowed) etc. They were always complaining that DH is crap and didn’t take any photos of the kids, didn’t respond when asked when he’d like to meet or which restaurant we should go to, etc. They would ask him repeatedly and then end up texting me because he wasn’t responding. So they added me to the conversation to make it easier. Several years passed.

At Christmas MIL wanted us all to come for lunch. It would have been allowed because we are 3 households plus a single mum who is bubbled with MIL so doesn’t count. But I didn’t feel comfortable mixing because I have an immune disorder so I asked DH to decline. He didn’t. Weeks passed.

In the end I messaged and said very sorry but we won’t be coming because of my health issues - we’d prefer to stay safe until I get vaccinated, hope we can meet by Easter.

MIL immediately removed herself from the conversation. Nobody else ever sent a single message in that conversation ever again. I found out from SIL that MIL was going nuts, sobbing because she wasn’t getting her family Christmas, she flung the Xmas decorations in the pond, was threatening to kill herself, etc. I texted and called her but got no reply.

A month has passed. My SILs have contacted me separately to pass on a few photos, ask me what DH would like for his birthday, usual stuff. They seem fine with me. MIL has never contacted me again. She needed to drop something off for DH while he was out so she sent her neighbour, presumably because she didn’t want to see me.

Today I saw a text pop up on DH’s phone and realised they have set up a new Family chat that doesn’t include me. DH is being his usual crap self and not bothering to reply or send any photos. So basically I’ve been excluded, but more importantly my kids have been excluded because they no longer get any photos or hear anything about them.

I actually find it very hurtful to be excluded from the family like this. I’m no longer getting regular photos of my nieces and nephews which I used to get every day or two. No updates on what people are doing. And they hear virtually nothing from us. I’m also wondering what will happen when we’re allowed to meet up again? Will I not be invited? Or is MIL expecting me to turn up and be civil after she’s treated me like this, and just pretend everything is normal?

Sounds as if MIL is gateholding the relationships between her children. Quite a toxic thing to do. You'd be better keeping in contact with SILs directly so that the cousins can have news of each other.

It’s a really difficult situation. My first thought is a get a professional involved. Speak to a councillor (on zoom) and see what advice they have. Your husband has been abused his whole life it’s difficult for him to understand the situation as you do.

This is all very extreme. I’m so sorry about your wedding. The woman clearly has mental health issues. What happened to your FIL?

Your dh needs to leave the new group. By staying in it he’s enabling your ostracism and condoning their behaviour. He or you need to call the MIL out on her behaviour and ask her straight why she’s ignoring you.

Don’t let her fudge around the issue, make her uncomfortable. Ask her if she really thinks a meal is more important than your health, than your life?

Oh god, just read about the wedding dress. I’d be hoping she never talked to you again! . Maybe this is a blessing in disguise. You have a dh problem for sure. I’d never be seeing this woman again.

I understand how you feel OP. It's suffocating.

Agree with a op who said that you really need to reconfigure the situation. I know it's tempting to lay the blame at your DH's feet, but let's not forget that he's had a lifetime of surviving this toxicity. He has withdrawn, become passive and appeases her to avoid the fire. Please read up on FOG (Fear, Obligation, Guilt) and start to reconfigure.

In your DH's mind now, he is trying to appease both his wife and his Mum. He needs to start seeing that the actual problem alone, is his mother and the relationship he has with his mother.

The wedding was unforgivable. I couldn't move past that.

Does your DH see that his own DC are at risk from her behaviour? It sounds like he needs a serious amount of counselling to Wade through this history. His coping mechanisms are way off.

It's easy for posters to throw out platitudes (some helpful, some painfully not helpful) on a keyboard, but they forget that being in the middle of the shit show is incredibly draining.

One thing is for certain, you have to make some huge changes here, but little by little. Your first step is to tackle your DH - this will be tough - he doesn't even recognise how unhealthy this is.

I say this as a daughter to a toxic DM and DB who I have low contact with. I can do no right and they both re-write history to erase their toxic behaviour. As we speak, I am getting texts upon texts for not including my DB more in my own wedding 18 years ago (he did a reading in the church) yet my young family nor I were invited to his wedding years later - am no longer bothered - but the double standards are mind boggling. Sorry - I digress - but he has a lifetime of patterned coping behaviour to unpick otherwise he stands to potentially lose you.

I'm sorry you're going through this. I won't ever put my own DH or DC through it.

I have read the bit about the wedding dress now. OP whatever it costs, and that includes divorce, never allow any of them any close to your children without you.
MIL is crazy. But your husband is doing a low jey bullying to you. He just lets things undone so there is no other option, at the last minute. It is likely that SILs will do similar.
It must have been the way they learnt to cope with her throughout the years. Do everything she says. He was not saying anything to her because he was hoping that you would not say no on Christmas Day. You see.
Now, that would be the very same behaviour you had with the wedding dress. Only that now you know how it goes. You do not want your children to be relying on anything from this woman, and nothing happens. Same as what happened to you.
You are better off without MIL. You can try to keep in contact with your SILs. But think about this. MIL may not like it, and become even more spineless vitriol.

@Glenorma

I'm honestly confused why you're still married to him If I divorce him this woman will have unfettered access to my DC.

Rubbish. He'll just avoid her the way he does now. There's no answer to this op if you won't leave him. Your husband doesn't have your back and is actually enabling her abuse toward you.

Be thankful, she sounds like an absolute nightmare. Sounds like her son, your OH, knows the right way to treat her. Leave his family to him to deal with.

Sorry OP, but after reading all your updates it’s obvious your MIL and DH are exactly the same.

You wrote this paragraph earlier. See how you remained passive /quiet to avoid “setting off” your husband?!

Every time I brought it up (the wedding dress) that week he just got increasingly annoyed, saying I’ve already taken her to task about this, she’s been told to do it by Saturday and she will do it. Even the night before he was still saying it’s fine, I’ve spoken to her and the dress will be there tomorrow. Basically he wouldn’t entertain any suggestion that his beloved mother was a bitch who was fucking up my wedding.”

I would suggest counselling to work on your boundaries & when you’re strong enough, divorce your wet blanket husband and his toxic mum. They’re cut from the same cloth.

Why the hell did you have kids with and marry him then?

And most of your responses to our suggestions are obstacles to how it wouldn't work, you're not just passive you're defeatist. Why?

You seriously need to get a good therapist for yourself.

I now think couples therapy wouldn't work because I think "d" h is effectively gaslighting you into placating him and his mother!

The forcing your children on a gran who has no interest in them is frankly chilling! Way to teach children to people please abusers!

Just dreadful!

Actually if I were in your shoes I'd be doing a moonlit flit and changing mine and dcs names and keeping you all the hell away from all of them! Whether that is legal or not!

I disagree the dh has no responsibility here, he had that excuse as a child dependent on her he doesn't have it as an adult and especially when as pps say he is actively making matters worse than they need be to pass the buck essentially

He is not protecting your dc so you really need to.

@Glenorma

Op you sound extremely passive. Why would you leave it until your wedding day with no dress? Why in the week before would you not go to mil and get the dress off her? How is this my fault? I did go to get the dress off her. As I said, she kicked off. DH was furious with her and told me leave it, she WILL alter it or else, I‘ve put my foot down about this and you have to let her make amends. Every time I brought it up that week he just got increasingly annoyed, saying I’ve already taken her to task about this, she’s been told to do it by Saturday and she will do it. Even the night before he was still saying it’s fine, I’ve spoken to her and the dress will be there tomorrow. Basically he wouldn’t entertain any suggestion that his beloved mother was a bitch who was fucking up my wedding, he just wanted her to do the dress and make everything ok. I believed and trusted him - it was only when the day arrived and it was obvious the dress wasn’t going to appear as promised that I panicked. Of course after she’d done that he didn’t have the balls to tackle her about it, the same as he didn’t have the balls to tell her we weren’t going for Christmas because of my health.

@Glenorma

I do understand you were in a difficult position but you need to stand up for yourself to your MIL and your DH. You shouldn’t have let it get that bad, you should have kicked up a fuss months before the wedding and not a week before! You also should have stood up to your DH as it’s not up to him to tell you what dress you should wear, you basically didn’t have the dress you wanted as you didn’t want to upset your DH. That’s not right, he shouldn’t have wanted you to be upset!!! Sorry op you have a massive DH problem.

I was in a similar position to you although different circumstances led up to me giving DH an ultimatum.

I let my in law family get away with treating me like shit for years. I had a passive DH who let it happen and never said a word.

The start of December 2019 culminated in a dinner I wasn’t invited to. DH still wanted to go. He did go and I moved out. I also sent him the thread from here. You weren’t very complimentary. It hit lin like a train.

He had a complete break down when I left, completely changed who he is and I came home. We never have any problems at all now. He’s a completely changed man. We don’t see his batshit crazy family and life is so nice.

I know that this isn’t always the case but you are facilitating the continuous abuse you are receiving by not taking your DH to task over it.

Knock it on the head. Give him an ultimatum or take the kids and clear off for a bit. A shirt sharp shock is needed. You also need to show him this thread.

You seem to be worried about your children seeing the whack job if you divorce. However, any half decent lawyer would prevent this from happening given the catalogue of bat shit behaviour.

@mygenericusername

I was in a similar position to you although different circumstances led up to me giving DH an ultimatum.

I let my in law family get away with treating me like shit for years. I had a passive DH who let it happen and never said a word.

The start of December 2019 culminated in a dinner I wasn’t invited to. DH still wanted to go. He did go and I moved out. I also sent him the thread from here. You weren’t very complimentary. It hit lin like a train.

He had a complete break down when I left, completely changed who he is and I came home. We never have any problems at all now. He’s a completely changed man. We don’t see his batshit crazy family and life is so nice.

I know that this isn’t always the case but you are facilitating the continuous abuse you are receiving by not taking your DH to task over it.

Knock it on the head. Give him an ultimatum or take the kids and clear off for a bit. A shirt sharp shock is needed. You also need to show him this thread.

You seem to be worried about your children seeing the whack job if you divorce. However, any half decent lawyer would prevent this from happening given the catalogue of bat shit behaviour.

I've had a chance to catch up OP. I've no doubt that he's in the FOG but he's dragged you in as well.

I know my DH would have left me if I'd done the same. Not that I ever would.

I think this pp has it. This situation will not change until the day she dies and even then, you will still live with her legacy in the form of your DH.

And as an aside why you felt the need to get involved in Christmas dat us beyond me. If she was expecting you and you didn’t turn up it wasn’t your problem.

If DH felt the need to go to keep the peace on the day, I would have sent him on his merry way without my children and he would have found his stuff in the garage for a two week isolation period afterwards.

Is this passiveness a man thing? My DH is the same and we had the millionth argument yesterday about him not standing up to his parents. His response is similar to yours in that he doesn’t want a family rift so basically I have to suck it up - he’s been told in no uncertain terms that won’t be happening!

And as annoying as my ILs are, they aren’t a patch on your MIL who is absolutely batshit!

So go NC. Your DH wants to allow her in your home? Fine, but go out with the kids. Every time. I’d be incredibly forceful with DH on this and not accept his accusations of selfishness. Make him understand that his behaviour (and hers) is not normal and you don’t have to tolerate it even if he chooses to.

I’m so sorry you are dealing with this crap. Your wedding dress story is one of the worst things I’ve ever read. I couldn’t have forgiven my DH or MIL for that. But it shows how long you have been passively putting with terrible behaviour both from him and her. I get that he is in FOG and he as been programmed to act this way, but he has bullied you into accepting years of abuse as a result. If the only reason you are married to him is to control her access, that’s not reason enough is it? This isn’t what married life should be. I’d give him an ultimatum. He needs to accept there is an issue (and you have so many awful examples of behaviour to remind him) and make steps to address it, or you leave. I also think you are too invested in your SIL. They knew what would happen with the dress too and did nothing. Step back from them.

You say he would say 'you are embarrassing me' when he is the embarrassment. A fully grown man who won't stand up to his own mother and be protective towards his wife and his CHILDREN. Am sure if this was the other way around and your family and you behaving this way he would have something to say. Or call his bluff and say if it is ok for her to do then you will start to behave the same to get your own way hahaha hahaha Personally I would be getting him onside to start looking to move far far away

When he says you’re embarrassing him what do you say? Do you tell him that you’re not. Do you tell him that his mother is bullying you, is being unreasonable and has to face the consequences of her behaviour and that by him not supporting you he’s embarrassing you.? Throw it back at him.

It sounds to me as if your MIL is unwell. Is there a history for this extreme behaviour? What age is she? I am just wondering if she has dementia or early onset Alzheimer's which can manifest itself in a number of ways.

I do think ye both made errors in communications - like your husband seems to be extremely poor in communicating and then, when you were basically the contact, why did you leave it to him especially as you must have suspected this could be an issue? Or if you did not suspect then does this indicate a change in her behaviour and an underlying health issue?

However, as Sid by everyone that is not any excuse for her behaviour. It is very positive that your SIL's are keeping the contact with you - they will understand the health concern especially with the continuing worsening of the pandemic.

I wouldn't get overtly worked up about the non-inclusion in the new group - its your DH's family and he was on the original group and he should get his finger out and communicate properly.

Jesus, OP - have just read through your posts

Would you seriously consider a divorce if you could find an acceptable arrangement in terms of MIL's access (or not) to your children? If yes, I would think about having an initial chat with a divorce lawyer just to see what the options around the access are.

On the other hand, if you do love DH and it is primarily the situation with his mother causing any strain, is there scope to discuss the issue more frankly than perhaps you might have done in the past, in light of the more recent developments? So putting it to him that you accept he wants to maintain a relationship with her and that seemingly (according to his and his siblings' behaviour/comments) involves placating her often unreasonable/irrational behaviour - however, he needs to work harder to limit the negative consequences of that on you and your children.

He is victim blaming and gas lighting you by trying to make it seem that you’re being unreasonable. And that’s him bullying you.

@Glenorma

And you married him? He hadn’t personally done anything wrong and we had 75 people sitting in the church. Would you have cancelled on your wedding day?

It wouldn't have got as far as the day. He hasn't had your back from the get-go

@Glenorma

Can't you see here that your DH is letting you down? Yes, in all of those situations he should have spoken up to her but didn’t. He’s learned over a lifetime to say nothing to her otherwise she’ll take a huff or a hissy fit. So now he expects me to also let things go and keep the peace. That’s why I messaged her about Christmas, because I’m sick of it. He was keeping the peace by not telling her we weren’t going for lunch, and I was worried that if it went on long enough he’d push me to keep the peace by actually going. We finally reached the point where my personal health and safety trumped everything else, so I spoke up and made sure we wouldn’t be going, and she didn’t like it.

Why does he think it actually matters if she takes the huff?

Let her get on with it. Everyone's lives would improve immeasurably

my kids have been excluded because they no longer get any photos or hear anything about them. I’m no longer getting regular photos of my nieces and nephews which I used to get every day or two. No updates on what people are doing. And they hear virtually nothing from us

If your children aren’t at school, and are not on the chat themselves, they are hardly being “excluded” are they? Excluded is such an emotionally laden word but that’s not what this is. I really think for your own mh you need to try and take everything down several notches. Your SILs are not receiving photos or news about your children, but so what?! Although to be honest in the past year nobody had been doing much of anything. Except in the case of your in-laws, having massive, emotionally fraught rows. But some people love the drama of that.

If you want to stay in contact with your SILs just send them the odd text message or photo. Why don’t you need any more than that??