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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Excluded from family because we didn’t go for Xmas lunch

256 replies

Glenorma · 09/01/2021 20:55

DH, his two sisters and his mother have a “Family” chat where they message each other with photos of the grandkids, info about what’s happening in their lives, plan meetups (when that was allowed) etc. They were always complaining that DH is crap and didn’t take any photos of the kids, didn’t respond when asked when he’d like to meet or which restaurant we should go to, etc. They would ask him repeatedly and then end up texting me because he wasn’t responding. So they added me to the conversation to make it easier. Several years passed.

At Christmas MIL wanted us all to come for lunch. It would have been allowed because we are 3 households plus a single mum who is bubbled with MIL so doesn’t count. But I didn’t feel comfortable mixing because I have an immune disorder so I asked DH to decline. He didn’t. Weeks passed.

In the end I messaged and said very sorry but we won’t be coming because of my health issues - we’d prefer to stay safe until I get vaccinated, hope we can meet by Easter.

MIL immediately removed herself from the conversation. Nobody else ever sent a single message in that conversation ever again. I found out from SIL that MIL was going nuts, sobbing because she wasn’t getting her family Christmas, she flung the Xmas decorations in the pond, was threatening to kill herself, etc. I texted and called her but got no reply.

A month has passed. My SILs have contacted me separately to pass on a few photos, ask me what DH would like for his birthday, usual stuff. They seem fine with me. MIL has never contacted me again. She needed to drop something off for DH while he was out so she sent her neighbour, presumably because she didn’t want to see me.

Today I saw a text pop up on DH’s phone and realised they have set up a new Family chat that doesn’t include me. DH is being his usual crap self and not bothering to reply or send any photos. So basically I’ve been excluded, but more importantly my kids have been excluded because they no longer get any photos or hear anything about them.

I actually find it very hurtful to be excluded from the family like this. I’m no longer getting regular photos of my nieces and nephews which I used to get every day or two. No updates on what people are doing. And they hear virtually nothing from us. I’m also wondering what will happen when we’re allowed to meet up again? Will I not be invited? Or is MIL expecting me to turn up and be civil after she’s treated me like this, and just pretend everything is normal?

OP posts:
Glenorma · 10/01/2021 03:04

I'm honestly confused why you're still married to him
If I divorce him this woman will have unfettered access to my DC.

OP posts:
whoamongstus · 10/01/2021 03:05

I'm afraid if my husband wouldn't go to therapy to unlearn all the passive shit his mum has instilled in him and started standing up for himself and his family, I wouldn't be able to stand for it. I can forgive a lot but that would be too much for me.

Graphista · 10/01/2021 03:17

The wedding dress incident was dreadful, unforgivable in my opinion.

That said - again you were very passive as was dh over the whole thing which in a twist of irony seems to have set the course for the whole marriage. I have to say I'd have been telling him he gets the dress back in time for it to be altered by someone else or no wedding!

Why are you so passive op?

(As an aside and somewhat off topic - having worked in the wedding industry I would strongly advise never to have anyone but an experienced bridal seamstress alter a bridal or bridesmaid dress, there are unfortunately many good tailoresses or amateur sewers who THINK they can do this work, it's in fact incredibly skilled and delicate work. I've had to "rescue" several dresses or brides from such decisions)

He hadn’t personally done anything wrong

Actually he did, he COMPLETELY failed to stand up for you and if he's not doing it as you're about to marry he's definitely not going to once married. I'd have walked too.

On my wedding day my dad (the one who's usually most toxic/narcissistic) was on good form, another relative was a fucking nightmare! Too outing to detail exactly how, I was unaware as the incident occurred in the church about 5 mins before dad and I arrived so even dad wasn't there, he was in the car with me, it was the groom who cleverly and discreetly asked her to go somewhere private with him to help him with an outfit issue as a way to get her to himself and then he basically (but politely and calmly) told her to pack it in and behave! Which she then did. He even got her to apologise to the person she pissed off then and there (a minor miracle frankly!) and somehow managed it that I knew nothing until we were on our honeymoon. I did have words with the person when we got back from honeymoon but I was calmer by then too which I'm sure helped in meaning I dealt with them in such a way they couldn't claim I "had a go"

Very well handled by the groom (my now ex - for all his faults he figured out how to deal with my lot very early on and minimised the stress caused to me, I found out after we married that my lovely now ex mil was from a similarly toxic family, she advised him very well on how to handle them that meant it rarely erupted into proper "rows" and when it did it was most definitely my lot being dicks!)

Until you both get ASSERTIVE with her (given all you've said about both of you I think an excellent post Xmas gift you could reward yourselves with is a proper - albeit probably virtual at the moment but I would HIGHLY recommend a truly interactive one where the instructor role plays with you both) then your lives, and your dcs (toxic parents make for toxic grandparents - trust me!) will be utterly miserable for potentially decades yet even if you left him.

You HAVE to take a stand, not doing so is also you making a choice - choosing for you AND your children to be treated like dirt and in your dcs case this will teach them that's what they deserve, and that can carry through to their adult lives.

Doing nothing is a choice.

Way I see it there's 3 options:

You leave your husband - which puts you out of target range but leaves your dc vulnerable

You stay and maintain the status quo - which means decades of tension and tiptoeing around this woman AND teaches your dc that such behaviour is acceptable and they deserve such treatment from their gran, aunts and father which makes them more vulnerable to accepting being treated poorly, even abusively by others

You stand up for yourself and insist he also stands up for his family (which is you and the dc now NOT her in terms of priority) - will be painful and difficult initially but you will likely find that eventually she will learn she can't get away with this crap with you OR your dc and even dh, or at the very least you will build a strong unit with dh and together you'll be able to withstand and withdraw as a unit from whatever she throws at you.

I'm from a family FULL of toxic relatives. Over the years I have learned to set boundaries, maintain them, not be drawn into lengthy disputes.

Eg

Shoe shop incident - I'd have said something like "I did not call you fat nor anything like it, I was merely trying to help. If you cannot behave appropriately we are going you can make your own way home" and done exactly that - walked away and left her with nobody to tantrum against.

Wedding dress - (assuming she's an actual bridal seamstress Grin) by 2 weeks before the wedding I'd have asked when I was to go for her to measure up and if she ummed and ahhed I'd have said "Ok well I need to know it's sorted so I'll be collecting it tomorrow" and I'd have been there to collect it, no ifs buts or maybes and if she wasn't in I'd have waited till she was. Wouldn't have entered into length discussion if she was an arse about it just stood my ground "my dress please where is it?" Stuck record style until she handed it over.

I have to say I find it hard to believe given how extreme she is that there was NO indication in the whole time you were with dh up to the wedding? So I wouldn't have handed her the dress in the first place!

agree you're being scapegoated too.

This is one time I think couples therapy could be a good idea as I wouldn't trust him to be honest with a therapist, find one who is properly accredited (anyone can call themselves a therapist or counsellor unfortunately in the Uk it's not a protected profession - it should be!) and who is experienced in dealing with toxic family dynamics (even full on psychiatrists and psychologists can be poor on this)

That AND assertiveness training is the very best thing you could do for yourself and your dc

ZazieSheHer · 10/01/2021 03:17

You’re just going to have to very slowly but surely start standing your ground with your DH over MIL.

He’s got to be the one who has to make the effort to square the circle. You make zero effort from now on. Al your effort goes into standing your ground. Calm, quiet, unmovable. Give up any notion you can manage the situation to make it better.

You will be left out and excluded by MIL. That is no bad thing in a lot of ways.

You just have to set and keep rules.

For example, the DC only see her if you are present.

If she won’t invite you, you don’t go and they don’t go. It’s his problem to make that right.

Don’t give it any more thought than that.

If you are invited to something, tell DH that you and the DC will only go if you and he agree a strategy in advance about how he will protect you if she attacks you.

That strategy needs to include leaving practically immediately, no matter the circumstances. No remonstrations with her, no arguing, no drama. Just a quiet and determined “ This is not acceptable”. And exit.

donewithitalltodayandxmas · 10/01/2021 03:26

Stand up to your dh and say whilst he is welcome to visit and see her after this you won't be going and you won't be having her around the house either as you only have people in your house that are civil to you. He is picking easy life and just ignoring but he needs to think of his own children as well what if one of them doesn't want to do something she wants them to is she going to kick off then

BuffaloMozzerella · 10/01/2021 03:31

Your DH is manipulating you in these situations. He is constantly asking you to toe the line in one way or another - whether it's by avoiding taking action, or later putting pressure on you to let something go when it should have been been with by him, or by saying 'you hate my mother' (how old is he??) in order to get you to do what he wants. Your wedding dress story is awful and I would struggle to forgive either of them for such a colossal let down and disregard of you.

I'm sorry you're going through this. I don't think he will be anymore use at protecting your kids than he is you, to be honest, so I understand your reasons for wanting to stay around. It sounds very stressful.

To be honest I would be happy to have been kicked out of that group as that was just a ticking time bomb. I understand you feel excluded now but none of this family will be able to function in a healthy way and it would always have blown up in your face eventually.

I would this peaceful time to either have some extremely serious conversations with your DH involving his behaviours or start planning how you are going to avoid this woman as much as possible for the next however many years.

HighSpecWhistle · 10/01/2021 03:34

Your husband sounds really rude.

Mummyoflittledragon · 10/01/2021 03:36

@Glenorma

Op you sound extremely passive. Why would you leave it until your wedding day with no dress? Why in the week before would you not go to mil and get the dress off her? How is this my fault? I did go to get the dress off her. As I said, she kicked off. DH was furious with her and told me leave it, she WILL alter it or else, I‘ve put my foot down about this and you have to let her make amends. Every time I brought it up that week he just got increasingly annoyed, saying I’ve already taken her to task about this, she’s been told to do it by Saturday and she will do it. Even the night before he was still saying it’s fine, I’ve spoken to her and the dress will be there tomorrow. Basically he wouldn’t entertain any suggestion that his beloved mother was a bitch who was fucking up my wedding, he just wanted her to do the dress and make everything ok. I believed and trusted him - it was only when the day arrived and it was obvious the dress wasn’t going to appear as promised that I panicked. Of course after she’d done that he didn’t have the balls to tackle her about it, the same as he didn’t have the balls to tell her we weren’t going for Christmas because of my health.
So basically your husband behaved to exactly like your mil to you all in the run up to your wedding.

Tbh you’re both in the FOG. You’re in your husband’s FOG. He ruined your wedding by not standing up to his mother and pretending to you and himself that he had the situation under control when he did not.

At the beginning of this situation, I thought posters were being unfair blaming him as he joined the new chat for a peaceful life then muted the darn thing. I thought perhaps in a way he was protecting his family. But he is not. You have a massive dh problem and did from before you married him.

I therefore would not ever allow him to take your dcs to see his mother without you. He needs to pick a side. Right now his side is himself and fuck everyone else. He’s playing the me me me game and needs to grow up and pick a side as unfortunately there are sides in this nasty game.

Glenorma is correct. You are also incredibly passive in all of this op. You chose (through FOG) not to stand up to your then fiancé to get your dress back.

Mummyoflittledragon · 10/01/2021 03:38

Oops. It’s the middle of the night. The person you quoted in your comment is correct.

LovePoppy · 10/01/2021 03:48

@Glenorma

I'm honestly confused why you're still married to him If I divorce him this woman will have unfettered access to my DC.
Read this over and over.

Then do it again.

Is this how you want to live your life?

Re wedding dress. It is partially your fault. Own it. You knew she’d fuck up, and you let her have her way anyway.

popsydoodle4444 · 10/01/2021 04:09

@Glenorma

Your MIL is a narcissist;first it's her children she controls then it'll be yours.You can bet she'll emotionally abuse them the same way she does her own children.I'd cut her off tbh for your own children's well-being.

lovelemoncurd · 10/01/2021 04:34

Your MIL is mentally ill! She needs professional help.

Glenorma · 10/01/2021 04:53

I'd cut her off tbh for your own children's well-being.
I don’t have that option as long as DH wants them to see her. I’ve seen him trying to push them onto her. Saying “hug your grandma, show her your toy” when she’s clearly disinterested. Showing them photos when they were babies and saying “that’s grandma” because she couldn’t be bothered to see them and they didn’t know who she was. Sending her photos of DC that she never acknowledged or replied to. Refusing to acknowledge or deal with her bad behaviour. Still seeking her approval. Of course if I have any boundaries regarding her behaviour that’s me being selfish.

Stand up to your dh and say whilst he is welcome to visit and see her after this you won't be going and you won't be having her around the house either
He’ll say it’s his house and he’s allowed to have guests. And he’ll say I’m selfish for refusing to visit her, and embarrassing him. Because he likes everything to appear hunky dory and not publicly embarrass him.

I therefore would not ever allow him to take your dcs to see his mother without you.
I don’t legally have that power. I wish I did. If I divorce him I’ll have no control over him taking DC to see her.

I find it hard to believe given how extreme she is that there was NO indication in the whole time you were with dh up to the wedding
Oh she was awful for years. I gave her a ring one Xmas and she complained it was too big, so she sent it back inside a pie and claimed it fell off while baking. She went nuts on my first Mother’s Day when she was not the mum who got taken out for afternoon tea. She had an affair with a man who was married with little kids and DH refused to hear that she was a home wrecker. She asked me to fetch stuff then never paid me (never brought her stuff again). DH bought me a gift and asked her to wrap it but she kept it. She cut contact with her friend because she gained weight and lost her job. She stopped visiting her own mother with Alzheimer’s because she didn’t remember or understand what an effort she was making to look after her, even when her mum was dying she wouldn’t visit. When we got married DH was like this is your future MIL, you need to forgive and try to be friends. Which is why I let her take the dress and did my best to involve her, invited her out shopping, asked her to help pick flowers etc. With hindsight I think DH must have asked her to do the dress because he thought it would make us friends? Because she wasn’t bothered.

OP posts:
Sinful8 · 10/01/2021 04:53

@YoniAndGuy

So your DH is basically a cardboard cut-out and not an actual person?

I’d just replace him with one of those cutouts of Han Solo, at least it would be eye candy, if you can’t have an actual sentient human companion.

Or hes low contact with his frankly insane mum who threatens suicide when she doesn't get her own way?
Bythemillpond · 10/01/2021 05:04

He hadn’t personally done anything wrong and we had 75 people sitting in the church. Would you have cancelled on your wedding day

Yes.
I think in all of the situations you have mentioned your husband has not had your back because he is more frightened of his mother than you

You might not like what he does but he can handle that. He can’t or won’t say anything against his mother because he lives on fear at what her response is.

Choose your battles and make sure he knows you won’t tolerate his behaviour. To the point that he is more afraid of what you might do.

If she is so dramatic I would suggest that if you divorced that because of her behaviour she isn’t safe around the children and he sees them at a contact centre if he can’t keep them safe

Mummyoflittledragon · 10/01/2021 05:34

The way you describe yourself in relation to your needs and rights is exactly the way your husband is describing himself in relation to his mother. Can you not see that? Can you really not see how similar he is to his mother and how your reaction vis a vis him is the same as his vis a vis his mother? Can you really not see that you will be passing this down to your children if you do not change something?

You are the one in a position to make a stand. Because you are the only one, who is consciously admitting there is a big issue here and (I think) asking for help to make the changes. And if you don’t make changes, you will pass this dynamic onto your children. Is this what you want? For by doing nothing you will be making a choice. The choice to be passive bystander.

AgentJohnson · 10/01/2021 06:32

The way you describe yourself in relation to your needs and rights is exactly the way your husband is describing himself in relation to his mother. Can you not see that? Can you really not see how similar he is to his mother and how your reaction vis a vis him is the same as his vis a vis his mother? Can you really not see that you will be passing this down to your children if you do not change something?

You are the one in a position to make a stand. Because you are the only one, who is consciously admitting there is a big issue here and (I think) asking for help to make the changes. And if you don’t make changes, you will pass this dynamic onto your children. Is this what you want? For by doing nothing you will be making a choice. The choice to be passive bystander.

This

Placating your MIL hasn’t and will not work because her mindset is too entrenched. I understand your hurt, especially if you don’t have close family of your own but you can not continue trying to find the magic formula that will change a toxic family dynamic that is this entrenched.

Your H has chosen a form of limited contact with his family that works for him and them cutting you out of the family WhatsApp group is a ‘cutting your nose to spite your face’ move on their part.

If you want to raise strong confident children, then you have to model that behaviour and given the level of your H’s FOG, you are the last defence.

Take a step back and break the cycle of enablement. The obvious red flags regarding your MIL and the relationship your H has with her, were there from the beginning, you need to ask yourself why you chose to ignore them? You can’t change behaviour you do not acknowledge.

museumsandgalleries666 · 10/01/2021 06:41

All those posters saying OP has a DH problem are WRONG!! The problem is the MIL. Don't blame the husband and his sisters for a batshit mother. These crazy bitches can't be 'managed'. After a lifetime on the receiving end of this behaviour head in sand option can be the only way to get through.

perhaps OP should have responded to the Xmas invite herself as it was for her reasons they weren't attending. Too late now. Try to build bridges with the sisters

OverTheRainbow88 · 10/01/2021 06:41

I think saying hopefully see you by Easter was a bit harsh, as that is so long away and must have been painful to read. But defo doesn’t deserve being ghosted!

SnuggyBuggy · 10/01/2021 06:49

If you don't feel able to leave wet lettuce DH all you can do is treat MIL like a toddler having a tantrum.

drspouse · 10/01/2021 07:18

@SnuggyBuggy

If you don't feel able to leave wet lettuce DH all you can do is treat MIL like a toddler having a tantrum.
I think this will help. Your DCs will start to see that MIL is not interested. If you go round and she's rude, oh no MIL we don't behave like that, sorry we are going now, DH can make his own way home. And repeat.
TwinMumSuperHero · 10/01/2021 07:23

OP that's exactly how I feel - I have to be there when she sees my children as I don't want to leave them alone with her and my DH who doesn't stand up to her.

She also tried her best to ruin our wedding, fortunately flowers related so not huge but definitely managed to ruin the six months before. I'm furious on your behalf!
She threatened not to go to her other children's weddings too

squeezeapplesmakejuice · 10/01/2021 07:32

Your mil has had a Joan Collins type tantrum. Don't worry about it but do keep in touch with your sil, send pictures amongst yourselves.

TheBlessedCheesemaker · 10/01/2021 07:38

Do you want your kids to grow up thinking that being spineless enablers is the norm, given that this is the message both parents are currently handing down?

Mummyoflittledragon · 10/01/2021 07:49

@museumsandgalleries666

All those posters saying OP has a DH problem are WRONG!! The problem is the MIL. Don't blame the husband and his sisters for a batshit mother. These crazy bitches can't be 'managed'. After a lifetime on the receiving end of this behaviour head in sand option can be the only way to get through.

perhaps OP should have responded to the Xmas invite herself as it was for her reasons they weren't attending. Too late now. Try to build bridges with the sisters

This is why I thought at first. However, he actively sabotaged the dress. He acted toward his future wife as his mother behaves to him. He is not the innocent party, who blithely places his head in the sand. He is actively behaving the same way as his mother when op pushes back against him. He would rather bully his wife into accepting inviting his mother to their home than have their home as a Sanctuary for his wife and children, he accuses her of hating his mother and he stands by and doesn’t protect his children against his mother’s venom.