To ask what you think of SAHMs?

[HarryHarryHarry]

For the past 3 years I have been a SAHM. I never imagined that I would be one but I actually quite like it. Eventually I plan to go back to work but it could be that I just work unskilled-type jobs instead of having a proper career. I really don’t know what my options will be when the time comes. I might just stay home and focus on my writing, which is my real passion, or I might go back to university and retrain in something. (We are lucky that we can currently afford to get by on just one parent’s wages). Recently though I have been wondering what my children will think of me when they’re older. Especially my daughter. Am I a bad example to her?

If your mum was a SAHM, did you have any thoughts about that?

Most kids with parents that love them, provide for them and look after them are fine regardless of whether their parents work or not.
At last you speak sense!

Unless you are earning big bucks then you are financially vulnerable whether you work or not (could you afford the kids/mortgage/bills) on your own if the worst happens. I couldn’t. I earn but am still financially dependent on DH! That’s the norm!! It’s not just SAHM that are vulnerable. A lot of women only work part time as well. Your life would still change massively if your DH up and left or died.

(The norm either way btw if you have built W life with someone- because you do it on both salaries) didn’t mean women to men.

Of course there is value in good parenting. All parents whether they work or not, look after their kids and bring them up. It’s not exclusive to SAHMs.

Someone down thread posted that 80% of mums work. It’s the norm and when kids reach school age many jobs coincide with times when the SAHM parent isn’t actually parenting anyway. The number one predictor of adverse outcomes for children is poverty which is why I happily prioritise earning money to being available 24/7 for them. They are fully supportive of this and are hugely proud of what I’ve achieved.

And before anyone screams where is their father - he died a couple of years ago. Which influences my thinking of why women are being vulnerable (in most cases) to rely entirely on their partner

Holy I fully accept that there is financial risk involved in sah but plenty of people in dual income households would be in trouble if one person lost their job or left.
It's an illusion to think that working is more secure - unemployment is a risk for everyone.
I think the only people with true security are those whose mortgages are paid off and who have enough money from investments not the need their job.
I value not having to balance work and home - I like a less busy life and having more time to do things, so I'm willing to take the risk.
I do need to do more about my pension, so I will look into that, but our assets are in joint names and I do have savings in my name, so I've done what I can to protect myself.

Nobody needs to justify why or when they go to work. I agree, it’s the norm these days to have two parents working; or in a single parent family, then obviously you fo what you need to do and should be respected for that. I have nothing negative to say about women who go to work. What is there to even say?

I just get slightly annoyed at some of (what definitely feel like) sly digs at SAHMs - from other women!

Imagine how you would feel if you couldn’t work because of long-term illness or disability and certain posters were getting their jibes in about SAHMs being useless, wasted talents / lives or resented by the DH.

The same would apply to a SAHM who has disabled or SEN children.

It’s very unpleasant.

And it gets irritating too, being told you are financially vulnerable when you are not.

Mostly women have very good reasons for doing what they do.

Even if I was working, I simply would not be in a relationship with a man who saw his earnings as ‘his’ money. Absolutely no way. I find that deeply unattractive in a man because it reeks of pettiness, selfishness and a lack of integrity. Not interested and that type of man is not father material, imo.
I think you are missing the point @pa1oma

Women dont start out a marriage with men who think this.
It starts once the man reveals himself to be abusive , often once the woman is pregnant or starts when the relationship breaks down.
Ive seen friends divorce and be taken aback at the suddeness with which they turn.
When posters give financial independence as one of the reasons for WOH its not a slight on anyone else or a devaluing of SAHP
Its a decision shaped by their experiences and life values.
My father financially abused my mother in their later years.
He changed the bank details once he received his pension and it was paid into his account.
He felt it was his alone.
My DM had paid married womans stamp and so had a small state pension.
He used witholding money to control her.
So sad as this is, it has shaped the decisions I have made.
It doesnt mean I have married a nasty, selfish man just that I will never put myself in that position.
If as a SAHM you are financially independent then this doesnt apply to you. If thats the case then why you are getting so angry about it ?

Jesus this thread is a train wreck from BOTH sides.

Everyone here is so triggered by something and desperate to lash out and 'prove' something.

Maybe try to be nice and understand about other people and you might find you are afforded the same.

I just explained why I get annoyed, Temple. Sure, women, working or not, can end up in abusive relationships and of course it’s not something you can always see coming.

But that doesn’t excuse calling women ‘useless,’ or ‘boring,’ or ‘paid for,’ or ‘a poor example,’ or ‘your DH will leave you for a younger model.’

If people come on and say they have experienced financial abuse and this has shaped the way they feel about needing to work etc etc, then nobody would have a problem with that at all.

But they don’t say that, They generally take a very different tone and it comes across as very unpleasant. Particularly, I would imagine, if you were a SAHM who felt as if she had no other option. Just scroll back through this thread, it’s all there.

Everyone here is so triggered by something and desperate to lash out and 'prove' something

Totally agree.
There are so many issues we could discuss but its become about sniping and proving they are better and others are drudges whether they SAH/ WOH.
Tedious and petty.

that doesn’t excuse calling women ‘useless,’ or ‘boring,’ or ‘paid for,’ or ‘a poor example,’ or ‘your DH will leave you for a younger model.’

I would agree but why take the bait and end up sniping back?

But yes, we are all shaped by our childhoods, for better or for worse. My family growing up were in poverty basically and far from perfect, but what I will say is that my dad never thought of what money there was as anything other than belonging to the family. In fact, my mum controlled the spending really. So, I guess, I’ve always taken that for granted and it’s why it doesn’t feel odd at all.

Thats fair enough then

‘I would agree but why take the bait and end up sniping back?’

I have sniped back to explain why the SAHM stereotypes don’t apply to me and it gets bloody irritating,

I have never lowered myself to say anything negative or disparaging about women who go to work and nor would I because what could I possibly have to say?

I dont actually think we are that different @pa1loma
We always had one of us at home just that DH and I shared the two roles.
We both like our jobs but also being at home with the DC and it meant we didnt need CC.
Not achievable for everyone but it worked for us due to the flexible nature of our jobs.
Same results but just a different way of going about it.

@pa1oma

But yes, we are all shaped by our childhoods, for better or for worse. My family growing up were in poverty basically and far from perfect, but what I will say is that my dad never thought of what money there was as anything other than belonging to the family. In fact, my mum controlled the spending really. So, I guess, I’ve always taken that for granted and it’s why it doesn’t feel odd at all.

This was how I grew up, we weren't in poverty though. We all mucked in together and me and dh have taken this approach with our dc. If somebody is washing up, others are putting away, tidying up the kitchen. They are never too young to be involved, and it teaches them teamwork and being a useful person in society. Yes, all money is family money, my dh has never called it his money, and I manage it as did my mum, when I was growing up. The same with parenting, my dad worked 9-5pm, home at 5.30, his tea was ready and then he took over bedtime and any other domestics that needed doing. He'd sit for ages detangling my long curls, mum used to hurt. Dh is the same with our dc even though 2 have left now, and the gc he's in there changing nappies and feeding them, the same as he was with ours. I rarely did a night feed, he did them all. Some sahp's have a hands on partner, ito parenting. I think I'd rather have worked than been mostly responsible for raising the kids.

At a societal level it is a shame that so many intelligent women with so much to offer chose to opt out and SAHM

This is the kind of comment that people find offensive. Do people really think that caring for kids, or household work, have no benefits? Or those are the only things SAHMs do? I can only wonder what such people think of people who work in childcare or housekeeping.

Speaking from a social perspective, there was a significant change for the worse in many communities due to the shift from mainly one to mainly two income families. All kinds of social and community activity that had largely been done by stay-at-home parents suddenly fell by the wayside. Even now, many SAHPs, the few that there are, are pretty heavily involved in such things, especially once their kids are out of the toddler stage.

Heck, one of the reasons being home with young kids is so difficult for many young first time mums is because they feel so isolated - there is no one else around. Many neighbourhoods can seem almost abandoned during the workday.

I don't think this means working parents do nothing, or even that it would be better if more did not work. But it's pretty silly to think that just because someone is not employed for money, they don't do anything useful to society as whole.

@pa1oma

But yes, we are all shaped by our childhoods, for better or for worse. My family growing up were in poverty basically and far from perfect, but what I will say is that my dad never thought of what money there was as anything other than belonging to the family. In fact, my mum controlled the spending really. So, I guess, I’ve always taken that for granted and it’s why it doesn’t feel odd at all.

This was very common in a lot of wc communities, and some mc ones. The man brought home the pay and gave it to the wife. She managed the household, including giving him his spending money.

I don’t think I’m different to anyone which is why I’m so surprised when people have so much to say about ‘SAHMs’ - as if they’re some kind of homogenous group. My DH often worked abroad so it was just easier that I was here and we didn’t have the added complications of childcare and that kind of juggling. That’s it really. His work is flexible now, but it wasn’t always the case when he was building up his companies. He never just had a ‘job.’ He’s changed a lot in the last few years and calmed down. At one time he was probably a workaholic and that’s not easy to deal with, but anyway.. you support each other for good and for bad and fortunately for us, it has been ok.

Everyone here is so triggered by something and desperate to lash out and 'prove' something

Its not everyone at all

As with just about every subject on here there are some people doing it and some not

There are so many variables in people's lives.
I think that in generalising the conversation is stifled and we never get the full range of differences, this is a shame.

No one Is triggered,no one is lashing out. women having frank discussion doesn’t need to be reduced to psychobabble. It is ok for women to vociferously disagree, no ones died. Plenty disagreement for sure and that’s ok. Let’s not code everything women say as fraught and emotional resulting from triggering. It’s pejorative to discuss women opinions in this manner. It’s ok to be fired up online

Of course everyone subjectively thinks they’re right and yup they’ll vigorously defend their position. Because the position we take is consciously and unconsciously embedded in our experience & psyche. So no, there’ll be no complete and dramatic reversal of opinion from anyone. Face it no ones going to say actually...now you mention it...I’ve completely changed my mind had an epiphany.

At a societal level it is a shame that so many intelligent women with so much to offer chose to opt out and SAHM

Bizarre. I often see it as intelligent woman opts to give what she feels is the best start for her DC and reaps the benefits for years to come. It's quite sad that focusing your efforts on your DC is seen as a "waste of time" to so many. As though it's more important to be an economic asset than look after your DC

Everyone's situation is different but if I had continued working full time when my DC were little it would have meant dragging them out of bed in the dark and putting them in childcare for 11/12 hours per day. They'd barely see their parents. How on earth would that benefit society?! It would have been a stressful mess of a situation for them and me.

Being a SAHM was hard but I still count it as the best investment I ever made. Being financially dependent on your partner for a few years while one focuses on the DC really is no big deal in a loving, respectful relationship where both parents see the benefit of it. Fair enough if you or your husband don't but many do and it can work out beautifully for all involved.

@HeelsHandbagPerfumeCoffee

No one Is triggered,no one is lashing out. women having frank discussion doesn’t need to be reduced to psychobabble. It is ok for women to vociferously disagree, no ones died. Plenty disagreement for sure and that’s ok. Let’s not code everything women say as fraught and emotional resulting from triggering. It’s pejorative to discuss women opinions in this manner. It’s ok to be fired up online

Of course everyone subjectively thinks they’re right and yup they’ll vigorously defend their position. Because the position we take is consciously and unconsciously embedded in our experience & psyche. So no, there’ll be no complete and dramatic reversal of opinion from anyone. Face it no ones going to say actually...now you mention it...I’ve completely changed my mind had an epiphany.

Some people in this debate need to have an epiphany. This is because they are patronising, deeming the millions of women within this "group " they lump everyone in together in as inferior or questioning their raison d'être, ability to function as anything other than "just" a mother during their time as a SAHM, whether their husband respects them enough to not treat them like an au pair or childminder with perks etc. It's outmoded, insulting and divisive.

I read that working mothers resent the comments about not being there for children or not being able to possibly fit in everything a SAHM. Obviously those comments are ill judged and often cruel: working mothers are a critical and highly valued part of the workplace in terms of skill, expertise and experience. It does seem though whenever I come across these debates the majority of deconstruct and criticism is always aimed at the SAHM. Whether what they do is valuable, how it's not a proper job, that they will be shafted by society, the jobs market and their husbands or partners. The list goes on. And it's always other women doing it.

For the sake of women in general and to stop this corrosive questioning of such a huge part of many of our lives we need to be more like men and stop attacking ourselves. Given that millions of us inevitably undertake both roles at more than one point in our lives this shift in mindset really is critical.

If we cannot resist doing what we do to the SAHM we are ironically making ourselves even more vulnerable then ever before. Choice and emancipation should not bring the level of disdain and misplaced superiority in terms of judgement and assumption that it does around the place of a SAHM in society. Infidelity, divorce , economic pressures, modern life and choice should never diminish what for millions of children is a really positive experience that lasts their whole life. Whether that role is long lasting due to choice or necessity

How would that benefit society?
Parents remaining in work and women being visible and participatory I’d beneficial
Yes Women remain in the workplace is beneficial for society

I took the decision I’d trained for a long time and didn’t want to give up work
It was beneficial that I remain in work as I work in a skilled and shortage area.

My kids were at Nursery FT no adverse affects, well rounded happy children. It’s only 5 years, no biggie in the big picture