To ask what you think of SAHMs?

[HarryHarryHarry]

For the past 3 years I have been a SAHM. I never imagined that I would be one but I actually quite like it. Eventually I plan to go back to work but it could be that I just work unskilled-type jobs instead of having a proper career. I really don’t know what my options will be when the time comes. I might just stay home and focus on my writing, which is my real passion, or I might go back to university and retrain in something. (We are lucky that we can currently afford to get by on just one parent’s wages). Recently though I have been wondering what my children will think of me when they’re older. Especially my daughter. Am I a bad example to her?

If your mum was a SAHM, did you have any thoughts about that?

[quote believeinblue]@Freewheelingoryx there is no best option for a child any more than there is for a parent. Some parents, me included, make shit SAHMs, because if you are bored and unfulfilled are you really going to be doing a good job? I got depressed on maternity leave, if I was a SAHM we wouldnt be making play dough, jumping in puddles and whatever else instamums do, we'd be watching CBeebies eating crap. Nursery was the best place for my child, there they got lots of attention, singing, playing, learning, variety of food, and came home to loving parents who cuddled them, played with them, talked to them about their day. As is always stated, there is a reason pre school is partially funded for some 2-3 year olds.

You make decisions for your family not just your child, my happiness matters, I chose to work, I didn't need to, if I look after myself I can look after my children better.

But what fucks me off most of all when the "best for child" argument gets rolled out, no one asks where the bloody father is, and what sacrifices he's expected to make. [/quote]
I agree with everything you say Believeinblue

My post wasn't in any way intended to absolve men of their responsibilities.

@Freewheelingoryx oh but I can't argue with you if you agree with me!

believeinblue

Sorry I didn't mean to be obtuse! A depressed parent is obviously not going to make a good sahp. I have direct experience of that myself.

But equally, let's not pretend that all outside-of-home childcare settings are great either. Some really are. And some really aren't. Anyone who has used nurseries or early years facilities (such as myself) know their positive aspects and their limitations and we have all seen babies who are left in them far too long. I am sorry if it's seem as offensive to say that and of course we don't know the reasons behind it, so we do not judge.

But if increasingly more women are working, is it not a valid question to ask, how good is it for the child? And yes, why aren't more men doing their share? It's a difficult subject to raise on here when many working women are stretched from pillar to post trying to do the best for everyone. I want to be able to ask the question without it being seen to be critical of women's choices.

[quote Holyrivolli]@Cleverpolly3. You could make the same argument that for doing housework. Would you advocate that people get paid for cleaning their own houses? Would working parents get paid for evenings, weekends and holidays?[/quote]
I’m not sure really but clearly some people would say yes

@Bluntness100
Ironically if you look at benefits some people might say you do in fact get paid to
Including as a SAHM

I think it’s interesting to consider the effect that TSC report would have on the economy

• in fact get paid to LIVE

MrsHuntGwbeNotJeremyObviouslyI am interested why even bringing this subject is considered "shit stirring". It really isn't.

It is rather.
SAHM dont use CC , the thread is about attitudes to SAHM.
Hey lets all discuss how damaging CC is comes across as disingenuous and concern trolling.

Adults are perfectly capable of making choices about CC for their children, I would suggest you do the same.

Am I the only one who gets Mrs Doyle wringing her hands " wont you think of the chiiiiiildren" 😂
Gets coat...

@Cleverpolly3. Absolutely. And there is a real problem with being solely reliant on the generosity of a benefactor to afford to live be that the state through benefits or your husband/ partner by being a SAHM. The woman is entirely dependent on them continuing to keep the financial tap flowing. That’s why I think it is foolhardy for any woman to put themselves in such a vulnerable position. Kids are only little for such a short period but the decisions that a woman makes in that time will have a lifelong implications.

I was one for 6 years - once youngest started school I went back to work p/t as I was just bored at home.
There’s nothing wrong w staying at home if that works for your mental state, but once kids start f/t school think about what you’d do 6 hours a day, 5 days a week. And secondary comes around quickly too with more hours to fill!!

Templetree

Wow. I am a big Father Ted fan as it happens.

You are rather proving my point that it is a taboo subject.

And there's a difference between saying "let's discuss how damaging it is" to saying "let's discuss it and have an honest discussion about the good and the bad aspects on here. If I seem biased it's because the latter are rarely if ever discussed on Mumsnet apart from individual posters saying "I had this specific issue with the nursery or whatever". Sorry, but there is an unremitting positive narrative about cc which is rarely challenged. And if I am being really honest I think a lot of sahps are afraid of bringing up the subject for fear of being compared to Mrs Doyle or far worse.

Think about it, this is a parenting website after all, and we can't ask "what about the children in cc settings?

Obviously, all previous disclaimers apply: most parents do their best for their DC in the situation they find themselves, more men need to step up, the majority of parents who work outside of the home have no choice but to do so and to use cc.

It's still a huge societal shift and men are still not playing their full part. You'd think more posters would be interested in the subject.

@Freewheelingoryx

Templetree

Wow. I am a big Father Ted fan as it happens.

You are rather proving my point that it is a taboo subject.

And there's a difference between saying "let's discuss how damaging it is" to saying "let's discuss it and have an honest discussion about the good and the bad aspects on here. If I seem biased it's because the latter are rarely if ever discussed on Mumsnet apart from individual posters saying "I had this specific issue with the nursery or whatever". Sorry, but there is an unremitting positive narrative about cc which is rarely challenged. And if I am being really honest I think a lot of sahps are afraid of bringing up the subject for fear of being compared to Mrs Doyle or far worse.

Think about it, this is a parenting website after all, and we can't ask "what about the children in cc settings?

Obviously, all previous disclaimers apply: most parents do their best for their DC in the situation they find themselves, more men need to step up, the majority of parents who work outside of the home have no choice but to do so and to use cc.

It's still a huge societal shift and men are still not playing their full part. You'd think more posters would be interested in the subject.

Im not trying to stifle debate I was pulling you up on needing to bring discussion on the negatives of CC into a discussion about SAHM who dont use CC Ive read plenty of debate on here about CC over the years. Fake " concern" about other peoples children is passive aggressive and unpleasant as is the use of Wow

Ive never used CC btw

Everyparent on this thread would willingly woh if it was the difference between feeding our children or not

I'm sure they would if they found themselves in that situation and had no choice. But a few of them don't understand that it's the reality for many people, and nor do they how very basic and necessary this is. They tell us about "what's best for the child" and "better things to do with my life" and "I'm so misunderstood, don't you realise some of us are independently wealthy for life", which displays a really quite breathtaking lack of comprehension of just how important and essential money is.

Sounds obvious, but apparently it's not. Good parenting starts with not bringing a child up in poverty unnecessarily. Apparently it needs to be said!

Childcare on mn is regularly pilloried, esp provision for babies. Usually it is someone who knows someone whose daughter had a placement in a nursery and it was full of crying glassy eyed children being ignored by dysfunctional staff. Honest guv

Are there bad nurseries? Unfortunately yes a tiny minority
Are their poor nannies and child minders? Unfortunately yes a tiny minority
Are there poor parents? Unfortunately, Unfortunately yes a tiny minority BUT considerably more bad parents than there are bad nurseries

Children Being with sahp is not always best or safe and the local authority and health in such known cases will initiate nursery use for the child development and welfare. Nursery is good for children

So for balance let’s be clear childcare provision is only as good as the people who provide it. It is not a given that external childcare is poor provision

Although to be fair, I'd work no matter how rich my husband was. Because reasons. I'm just making the point that there are some people on this thread who seem to think earning money as a parent is somehow unseemly and materialistic (only in a woman, though), despite their own obvious and atypical privilege and wealth. One woman even thinks she's the victim because we don't give enough recognition to her elite affluence!

They've missed the memo on just how essential providing for a child is, and how it actually has to come before all else. It's very distasteful and doesn't help their case.

Im not trying to stifle debate
I was pulling you up on needing to bring discussion on the negatives of CC into a discussion about SAHM who dont use CC
Ive read plenty of debate on here about CC over the years.
Fake " concern" about other peoples children is passive aggressive and unpleasant as is the use of Wow

Ive never used CC btw

Templeton I don't think it's helpful to get personal but I have used cc and I have a child who thrived in it. My sister had a child who didn't.

And it is relevant to this thread and this debate precisely because many parents have no economic choice but to work, and because there is societal pressure on parents to do so, while nonetheless successive government absolves themselves of any pressure from society in turn to subsidize cc.

Are you honestly saying that endless threads on here titled "what do you think of sahms" or words to that effect are not passive aggressive?

I make no apologies for bringing up a subject which I think is very important but rarely discussed on here. Its highly relevant to the sahp v wohm debate. And if it isn't, imho, it should be.

By all means discuss how good quality childcare should be the norm
Don’t conflate using cc with parents relinquishing responsibilities or not caring

HeelsHandbagPerfumeCoffee is cc regularly pilloried on Mumsnet? I must have missed those threads.

I absolutely agree with you, and have said so, that it's not a given that external provision is poor. And I have already made the point about nursery care being better for DC in vulnerable families. (I don't necessarily mean economically vulnerable.)

Your post sets out the current thinking on external cc provision and I'm sorry but I don't accept all of it. I don't think that poor nurseries are a "tiny minority" as I have said before, some of the private most luxurious nurseries imo are some of the worst. You haven't mentioned anything about staff turnover, underpaid staff, or ratio of staff to children either.

And where is there evidence that there are more bad parents than bad nurseries?

@HeelsHandbagPerfumeCoffee

By all means discuss how good quality childcare should be the norm Don’t conflate using cc with parents relinquishing responsibilities or not caring

Yes thats what I picked up. Not called for at all .

Are you honestly saying that endless threads on here titled "what do you think of sahms" or words to that effect are not passive aggressive?

In the case of this particular thread, you've taken that out of context. Literally the first thing OP says is that she's a SAHM and is surprised at how much she has enjoyed it. The rest is a perfectly legitimate question of people's thoughts for her future options.

I quite appreciate her honesty in that she's considering staying home to write her novel rather than because her children will benefit so much from it by that point. Nothing wrong with it if the breadwinner is happy with it and you own it.

@HeelsHandbagPerfumeCoffee

By all means discuss how good quality childcare should be the norm Don’t conflate using cc with parents relinquishing responsibilities or not caring

Where have I done that? Please show me?

I don't believe that to be true either.

I have repeatedly said most parents do the best they can for their DC.

@GeordieGreigsButtButtZoom

Are you honestly saying that endless threads on here titled "what do you think of sahms" or words to that effect are not passive aggressive?

In the case of this particular thread, you've taken that out of context. Literally the first thing OP says is that she's a SAHM and is surprised at how much she has enjoyed it. The rest is a perfectly legitimate question of people's thoughts for her future options.

I quite appreciate her honesty in that she's considering staying home to write her novel rather than because her children will benefit so much from it by that point. Nothing wrong with it if the breadwinner is happy with it and you own it.

I must have taken all the other hundreds of threads with similar titles "out of context" too then.

If I was addressing you @Freewheelingoryx I’d say so
On thread cc is associated with not caring about your kids, the avaricious pursuit of money. Why can’t people eke out a meagre existence?

I must have taken all the other hundreds of threads with similar titles "out of context" too then.

Quite possibly. You certainly have in the case of this OP.

@HeelsHandbagPerfumeCoffee

If I was addressing you *@Freewheelingoryx* I’d say so On thread cc is associated with not caring about your kids, the avaricious pursuit of money. Why can’t people eke out a meagre existence?

That's fine (if I have interpreted your post correctly ) but you would be incorrect to do so.

What I AM saying is that it seems to have been accepted by many societies across the world that this is the best model to pursue and I would welcome more debate, more research, more discussion to challenge (and therefore prove or disprove) those discussions. And for women to have more of a say about how they structure their lives and to have more of a choice. For men to step up more. For governments to subsidize cc more. And for the psychological welfare of DC to be more prominent in all of these debates. [And more research about why our DC and our teens are so anxious? ]

I would love the opportunity to be a SAHM whilst my kids are so young but unfortunately it's not an option.