To ask what you think of SAHMs?

[HarryHarryHarry]

For the past 3 years I have been a SAHM. I never imagined that I would be one but I actually quite like it. Eventually I plan to go back to work but it could be that I just work unskilled-type jobs instead of having a proper career. I really don’t know what my options will be when the time comes. I might just stay home and focus on my writing, which is my real passion, or I might go back to university and retrain in something. (We are lucky that we can currently afford to get by on just one parent’s wages). Recently though I have been wondering what my children will think of me when they’re older. Especially my daughter. Am I a bad example to her?

If your mum was a SAHM, did you have any thoughts about that?

I get wound up too with the comments about setting a bad example for my DD by being a sahp or sponging off my DH.

My mum had periods of woh and sah - she was a fab parent. I have done both but mostly sah - I'm a pretty good parent too. As is my DH who woh. Being a good example to your children or being there for them isn't about sports days or whether one parent woh or not, it's about loving your children, valuing their thoughts and feelings, ensuring they are supported in their education, making sure their needs are met (even if you do it in a different way to someone else) etc.

Indeed. There's no one right way to be a parent, or to live your life. Everyone makes the decisions that are right for them and their families. As long as they are loving and caring and consider the needs of their children - and each other, if they're a couple - then any decision or way of life can be the right one, and we have no right to judge other people's lives. We only see a tiny slice of other people.

@Holyrivolli

Surprised no one has posted that ridiculous I’m a nanny, cleaner, gardener, PA so would need to be paid x list which they think is their gotcha moment. Erm no- it’s just being an adult and running your own life. The same stuff that working parents manage to do as well as working.

Are you having a chat with yourself in the middle of a thread?

I have been a SAHM for some while now .Have had PT jobs here and there as well .I think working, unless a Teacher or suchlike ,is not easy unless you wish to rely on childcare provision or are lucky enough to have family who help out .My DM worked through my childhood out of necessity ,and I was looked after by my DGM (pretty much co parented in fact)and other friends DMs or my Auntie .I liked this ,but sometimes just wanted to go home IFSYIM as well.Obviously things are different now but in the 60s it was unusual to be working as a Mum .Possibly this coloured my view ,I didnt have anyone to care for my DC in the same way . I think it is a life choice and there is no "right " way really .FT working Mums have it more difficult with young DC perhaps but reap the benefits when DC are older and there is money for Uni .treats and so on.We have managed and had money over for hols as well .Money has been tight sometimes ,but we stay within our budget .Running one Car(DH cycles to work) shopping economically and eating out /having a Take out as treats ,going on E Bay and the Sales!

You have do what suits your family. I stayed home when they were small as creche took my wages. Doing office work now. Find women quite judgy. I dont entertain it now!! Not always easy get right roles or semi decent money. Its alot factors.

weasilish TBF what to do all day? (as a SAHM) Baking ,taking dog for walks seeing friends(when we were able to obv before Covid) Looking after DC and shopping /coffee etc.

@RickiTarr. No. The justification that many have been using on this thread is that many of the different aspects of parenting is a job and should be valued as such. Which is patently isn’t. Most adults run their own and their kids lives whether they work or not. It’s called being an adult and shouldn’t require outside validation. If the husband/partner is willing to fund another adult to do this non-job then it’s up to them.

I think working, unless a Teacher or suchlike ,is not easy unless you wish to rely on childcare provision or are lucky enough to have family who help out

Weird point of view. Teachers need childcare too. Most of us are in school by 8 and leave after schools close. Drop off and pick up is an impossibility,p. Holidays are easier, I agree, although different schools have different holiday dates which can be problematic.

[quote Holyrivolli]@RickiTarr. No. The justification that many have been using on this thread is that many of the different aspects of parenting is a job and should be valued as such. Which is patently isn’t. Most adults run their own and their kids lives whether they work or not. It’s called being an adult and shouldn’t require outside validation. If the husband/partner is willing to fund another adult to do this non-job then it’s up to them.[/quote]
Definitely conducting a conversation with yourself.

Weird.

Surprised no one has posted that ridiculous I’m a nanny, cleaner, gardener, PA so would need to be paid x list which they think is their gotcha moment. Erm no- it’s just being an adult and running your own life. The same stuff that working parents manage to do as well as working.

If no one has posted it then why mention it and come up with a counter argument?

Well, I suppose that someone HAS posted it - you.

If I’m honest before I had kids I thought “that looks like a cushy life”. Now I’ve got a toddler I don’t envy my SAHM mates at all - I ask them how they do it.

I work two days a week with DD as I didn’t want to miss her little years while keeping my hand in my career. Work is a holiday compared to a day with a toddler.

I work two days a week with DD as I didn’t want to miss her little years while keeping my hand in my career. Work is a holiday compared to a day with a toddler.

I worked 2 days when my first was tiny. It was great and easy. The work/life balance was in my favour. 5 days at home, 2 days in.

When I increased my hours to full time - 5 days in, 2 days off it couldn’t have been more different.

My mum was a SAHM right through after having her first child. We loved it.
As we got older she volunteered - meals on wheels, ranger guides, church warden, refugee clothing, TESL.
Then she looked after elderly relatives until they died.
Then she and my dad had about 12 years of freedom when they travelled quite a bit and did loads of volunteering. Then my dad had cancer and RA, and my mum has dementia.
She is much much loved.

People on this thread have said that it’s not fair that these tasks aren’t considered work and aren’t paid. They are actually being paid for them by their partner/ husband. They just don’t want to think that their husband is actually their boss. Giving up financial independence is a key part of being a SAHM with very few exceptions who claim to be self-funding.

[quote Holyrivolli]@RickiTarr. No. The justification that many have been using on this thread is that many of the different aspects of parenting is a job and should be valued as such. Which is patently isn’t. Most adults run their own and their kids lives whether they work or not. It’s called being an adult and shouldn’t require outside validation. If the husband/partner is willing to fund another adult to do this non-job then it’s up to them.[/quote]
Actually a Treasury Select Committee might disagree with you
And this was written in 2016.....

“The annual economic value of childcare carried out by stay-at-home parents is £320bn, according to a 2016 estimate by the Office for National Statistics. If the Government paid parents an hourly rate instead of encouraging them to return to work by paying for childcare, this work would be brought into the formal economy, the committee said.”

www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/childcare-policy-parents-return-work-stay-home-treasury-select-committee-a8270841.html

@notacooldad

It always goes pear shaped on here when talking about whether sah is a job or not I agree it does. I think people on either side of tbe coin get defensive. I know I get wound up when people come out with comments such as 'at least my child knows I was there for them at sports days and if they were sick' This is despite me or Dh never missing a special assembly, play, sports day, whatever and being right there when they were poorly. I know it's my interpretation but it comes across as being superior as if they have the best interests of their children and others don't. I don't care what people do,I just don't like judgemental tones of others.

I think your parents is very interesting because you illustrate the dichotomy between the theoretical aspects of a debate a woman is able to entertain about this issue and then the very personal experiential viewpoint she has.

You state you don’t care but you then admit it affects you and in the past you’ve feel slighted. Which is understandable

Of course we all would lie to say we don’t care what strangers or indeed anytime think of our life choices but patently as threads like these show it’s not so clear cut

You are feeling judged and you are also judging.

@Cleverpolly3. You could make the same argument that for doing housework. Would you advocate that people get paid for cleaning their own houses? Would working parents get paid for evenings, weekends and holidays?

[quote Holyrivolli]@Cleverpolly3. You could make the same argument that for doing housework. Would you advocate that people get paid for cleaning their own houses? Would working parents get paid for evenings, weekends and holidays?[/quote]
Agree. I find it very odd that anyone would think they should be paid to clean their own house, or make the dinner or look after their own kids. For me that’s life, it’s what we do. No one should be getting paid for it.

We all do this shit. You don’t get paid to just live.

I'm always surprised on these threads how there are so many women saying "I couldn't be a sham, I found it boring and unfulfilling" and how little discussion there is about what is best for DC. These discussions are always centred around what is best : sahm v wohm. It's almost seen as a betrayal of feminism to mention " what is best for the child?". Of course for the majority of working parents it is not a choice and no one is saying that a child benefits from poverty. And generally more just and equal societies are societies where women, and women's issues, are empowered. And most parents do the best they can for their DC.

But quite a few posters on here have said it is their preference to work and fair enough. However I think there is a shocking lack of discussion about poor quality child care, about anxious DC who are less suited to being looked after outside of the home, about the long hours some children find themselves in wrap around care and holiday clubs, about the rise of mental health and anxiety disorders in our teens (I am not suggesting these mh issues are a direct result of infants being in outside of home childcare but is it one of the contributing factors? ).

Loads of childcare is excellent of course. But you are a pariah on here if you even mention problems associated with babies and DC being away from their parents for long periods of time or suggest that some of the care settings children find themselves placed in for long hours with are less than ideal . Why aren't these issues discussed more?

OK so there is quite rightly discussion about the childcare sector as a whole and how it is underfunded and undervalued, and receiving too little state subsidy. But there seems to be little to no talk about the direct effects of this poorly funded childcare on children. I find this lack of discussion surprising on a site that is passionate about attachment parenting values and proper feeding and positive parenting etc. It's almost the elephant in the room. I'd be interested to know if academics are actually funded to study the effects on the brain of a child who is placed for long hours in formal child are settings. Have we all followed successive governments insistence that women get back to work because it chimes in well with the values of global capitalism? Or have we all just accepted that the overall effects are positive? (I know they are for some vulnerable DC and I know that a child is better off in nursery if the sahp is depressed.) I'm not educated sufficiently to know the answer to this question for the majority of DC though, but surely the subject is worthy of a bit more of our attention?

I'm always surprised on these threads how there are so many women saying "I couldn't be a sham, I found it boring and unfulfilling" and how little discussion there is about what is best for DC.

Perhaps as surprised as I am at the number of people who think earning money to provide for your child is an optional extra, and not really something one needs to include in what's best for them. Or people who think bored, unfulfilled and miserable mothers can be their best parenting selves.

At any rate, socialisation, a degree of independence and some early years professional education are very beneficial for children. Even if I had chosen to be a SAHM, I would still have put my daughter in nursery a couple of days a week because it was good for her. An unsatisfactory childcare setting is an entirely different issue.

No one thinks earning money to support their children is an 'optional extra'. Every parent on this thread would willingly woh if it was the difference between feeding our children or not, so stop shit stirring.
However, in some families there's enough money for sah to be a choice. In other families cost/availability of childcare takes away choice.
The way I see it is that money needs to be earned and kids need to be looked after and how a couple choose to divvy up those responsibilities is up to them!

"Why aren't these issues discussed more?"

I'm guessing because it would undermine government policy that encourages and enables working parenthood. Childcare is now an industry in its own right.

I agree with you that we DO need that debate.

@GeordieGreigsButtButtZoom

I'm always surprised on these threads how there are so many women saying "I couldn't be a sham, I found it boring and unfulfilling" and how little discussion there is about what is best for DC.

Perhaps as surprised as I am at the number of people who think earning money to provide for your child is an optional extra, and not really something one needs to include in what's best for them. Or people who think bored, unfulfilled and miserable mothers can be their best parenting selves.

At any rate, socialisation, a degree of independence and some early years professional education are very beneficial for children. Even if I had chosen to be a SAHM, I would still have put my daughter in nursery a couple of days a week because it was good for her. An unsatisfactory childcare setting is an entirely different issue.

Perhaps you missed the bit GeordieGriggsButtButtZoom where I said for the majority it is not a choice? And I also stated some obvious benefits of childcare. But many posters on this thread have also said "I tried being a sahm but it wasn't for me or I couldn't do it" so there is clearly an element of choice for some. Obviously this is changing as society changes.

My post was centred around the unsatisfactory childcare settings you have mentioned (of which there are quite a bit about and they are surprisingly sometimes in the swankiest of settings) and about long hours spent apart from immediate family and that one person who thinks you are the bee's knees when you are 3 years or under, or even for older DC sometimes.

All I am saying is given that this is the way society is structured and the way it is headed; why aren't the psychological effects on DC discussed more on here and the subject of study and discussion more generally? I'm usually met with quite a bit of hostility for bringing it up (which is interesting in itself) but I think the majority of us would agree that it is very important.

@Freewheelingoryx there is no best option for a child any more than there is for a parent. Some parents, me included, make shit SAHMs, because if you are bored and unfulfilled are you really going to be doing a good job? I got depressed on maternity leave, if I was a SAHM we wouldnt be making play dough, jumping in puddles and whatever else instamums do, we'd be watching CBeebies eating crap. Nursery was the best place for my child, there they got lots of attention, singing, playing, learning, variety of food, and came home to loving parents who cuddled them, played with them, talked to them about their day. As is always stated, there is a reason pre school is partially funded for some 2-3 year olds.

You make decisions for your family not just your child, my happiness matters, I chose to work, I didn't need to, if I look after myself I can look after my children better.

But what fucks me off most of all when the "best for child" argument gets rolled out, no one asks where the bloody father is, and what sacrifices he's expected to make.

@MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously

No one thinks earning money to support their children is an 'optional extra'. Every parent on this thread would willingly woh if it was the difference between feeding our children or not, so stop shit stirring. However, in some families there's enough money for sah to be a choice. In other families cost/availability of childcare takes away choice. The way I see it is that money needs to be earned and kids need to be looked after and how a couple choose to divvy up those responsibilities is up to them!

MrsHuntGwbeNotJeremyObviously I am interested why even bringing this subject is considered "shit stirring". It really isn't.

As I said, the majority of women have to work. And the majority do what they consider to be the best thing possible for their DC and for themselves. Men obviously need to play a far larger part and take more responsibility for looking after DC. But I think it's naieve to say how a couple choose to divvy up these responsibilities is entirely up to them because we are all shaped by the society we live in, by government policy, by global economics and how all of those differing "priorities" align themselves in our lives. Why is it it stirring to ask how high up does children's psychological well-being come in that list of priorities?