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AIBU?

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Original poster

Do I have a right to be angry about this? (Trans related)

999 replies

Nc109283485 · 07/01/2021 13:09

Nc for obvious reasons. This is a very personal issue to me which I am understandably sensitive about, so this may be why I feel this way. I am perfectly happy to be told I AMBU! I believe trans people deserve love and respect and a happy life just like everyone else. So why did this concern and anger me?

I have a condition called vaginismus which has been very traumatic and caused me lots of grief over my life. In my eyes it is a very personal and female problem. (Look if up if you're not sure what it is).

I have tried to join a support group on a social media platform to really get to the bottom of it and sort it out. I wont say which one as dont want to 'out' either myself or the group involved. My request was pending and a message sent. I assumed this was to confirm I definitely suffer from this condition and to make sure I wasn't some strange pervert, but no! The administrator messaged me to say that before I was accepted I would have to answer a 'test question' as this is a gender inclusive group. Will I be addressing group members as 'ladies, men or everyone'. The tone felt quite aggressive and if I did not pass this test I would not be admitted.

My first thought was are men allowed to enter this group? Do I really have to speak about my vagina in front of 'everyone'? Why not say hello ladies (and the occasional transman who currently has issues with their vagina) no I have to address everyone? Wtf?

I honestly don't know what to think right now but this group clearly isn't for me. But maybe I just need some re-education?

OP posts:
Moonmelodies · 07/01/2021 13:51

Aside from the trans issue ... Is it possible that men who have partners with vaginismus might seek support/information/advice too?

warmandtoasty2day · 07/01/2021 13:51

i must be getting old because when i did my nurse training only women had vaginas as nature constructed in utero,

blackcat86 · 07/01/2021 13:52

That's ridiculous! I left a breastfeeding group who insisted on calling it chestfeeding. I don't understand why acknowledging that some trans people may still experience associated with parts of their body from their birth gender means that woman can't use language that they feel comfortable with. How many trans people are actually in that group and likely to be offended by you using terms like ladies?

christinarossetti19 · 07/01/2021 13:55

Step away from the Gender Ideologists and look elsewhere for support.

StrippedFridge · 07/01/2021 13:55

The administrator messaged me to say that before I was accepted I would have to answer a 'test question' as this is a gender inclusive group. Will I be addressing group members as 'ladies, men or everyone'. The tone felt quite aggressive and if I did not pass this test I would not be admitted

I would respond along the lines of "I don't understand the question. Would you please explain?"

slashlover · 07/01/2021 13:56

[quote FraggleShingleBellRock]@TheLovleyChebbyMcGee

"Mumsnet is very anti-trans so you likely won't get a balanced answer here"

It is not anti trans to say that vaginas are only found on women and girls and as such are a female issue. Why would men need to be in that group for a very specific biological issues that do not relate to them? And if a woman's own reality meant that she was triggered so badly I would very gently suggest that she seek support. Vaginismus would be the least of her worries if she was relying on the rest of the world to validate a lie in order to make her happy.

A male that has a neo vagina, a pocket, inserted into a pelvic cavity is not a woman and they lack the vaginal structure to suffer from women's issues. Theirs does not stretch, self lubricate, menstruate, contract or deliver little people into the world. Saying a man with a fake vagina pocket is a woman is like saying a man is an elephant because he can squirt liquid out of a dangly bodily appendage.

Women wanting women only spaces should be fully supported. I've got no issues with a side group for men to get support if their wife/oh has vaginismus but women NEED private sex protected places. [/quote]
Nobody is talking about that though. Trans men were born women so have a vagina and the biological issues do relate to them.

Skysblue · 07/01/2021 13:59

I’m really sorry about the vaginismus OP, that sucks. I hope it improves.

Re the question, I would feel the same as you. When transpeople demand to police the language of others, they’re saying that their feelings about the meaning of words like men and ladies are more important than others’ feelings about the meaning of those words. You approached a support group where anyone would expect a female only space, and in joining were asked to confirm that your feelings aren’t as important as those of transpeople. Of course you were upset. Still, at least you found out quickly, and before you posted personal information, that it wasn’t a genuinely supportive female only space.

aSofaNearYou · 07/01/2021 13:59

To the people saying there may just be partners on there looking for advice, why on Earth would such people be offended by posts not addressing them? It's obvious that's not what this is about.

shallbe · 07/01/2021 14:02

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

ChestnutStuffing · 07/01/2021 14:02

This would annoy me too, OP. My guess is they are including men in the "transmen are really men" model.

It wouldn't bother me to have a transman with the relevent problem in a group like that, and I'd not be going around calling such a person a lady, but the fact that the first question they asked you was about policing your language is pretty shitty.

And basically, yes, they are trying to police who enters their group based on ideology, which is pretty much the opposite of inclusive.

Sheleg · 07/01/2021 14:02

When posters parrot the "MN is anti-trans" line, it both amuses and appals me. Mostly the latter.

The massive cognitive dissonance that is required to make the statement "trans women ARE women" is brought into sharp focus in situations like this. If trans women ARE women, they should be able to suffer from vaginismus, right? Wrong. And if trans men ARE men, they have no vaginas and therefore can't suffer from it, right? Again, wrong.

Plus it's all been wrapped up in "inclusivity" to make us feel like bigots when we protest. So very clever.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 07/01/2021 14:02

You approached a support group where anyone would expect a female only space, and in joining were asked to confirm that your feelings aren’t as important as those of transpeople. Of course you were upset. Still, at least you found out quickly, and before you posted personal information, that it wasn’t a genuinely supportive female only space.

This is the crux of the matter. I would not want to join a support group run by religious people where I was referred to by terms exclusively relating to beliefs I don't share, either.

Lovemusic33 · 07/01/2021 14:03

If you have a penis you are a man.

If you have a vagina you are a woman.

It’s pretty simple 🙂

I have trans friends (male and female), I’m not anti-trans but at the end of the day if you were born with a penis you are technically a man and a vagina a woman. Men do not have periods or give birth or have gynae problems because they don’t have a vagina.

gnushoes · 07/01/2021 14:05

I'm in a group for women with vaginal atrophy which is clear on the no men rule - they get w lot of pervy applications because vaginas. Partners cannot join if they're male. Women simply wouldn't discuss their problems or be able to get much needed help without knowing it's all female - there's enough embarrassment there for many as it is.

MondayYogurt · 07/01/2021 14:06

Has anyone tried to join an erectile dysfunction group and been subject to the same checks?

MintyMabel · 07/01/2021 14:06

Join a different group. What’s the problem?

katy1213 · 07/01/2021 14:07

Of course you have a right to be as angry as you like - and you don't have to sign up for re-education by the thought police. I'm sorry that your career depends on paying lip-service to this kind of twaddle.
Hope you find a more welcoming group elsewhere. Or maybe start one here?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 07/01/2021 14:07

People have explained what they see the problem as.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 07/01/2021 14:08

Or maybe start one here?

Yes, that's a great idea OP. There may already be a support thread.

Brighterthansunflowers · 07/01/2021 14:09

It’s apparently no longer acceptable to state biological facts like “only females have vaginas”. Men don’t have vaginas. Some trans men and some non binary people do but that’s because they're female not male, regardless of what they identify as.

I hate groups that feel the need to scream their wokeness with shit like this. I bet they’ve never actually had a trans man or nonbinary person in the group, but insist on excluding women rather than risk offending the TRAs.

Godimabitch · 07/01/2021 14:10

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Being in a pregnancy group where we discuss our vaginas and boobs alot, I would be comfortable with a trans man being in the group if they were pre-op and pregnant as they have the same genitals and issues. But I wouldn't be comfortable with trans or cis men in the group because they're not discussing or experiencing the same issues. I wouldn't be comfortable with non pregnant women either tbh. I guess it's a participant vs spectator issue.

How about an MTF trans person? Pre or post op?

@Ereshkigalangcleg

They couldn't be pregnant so no I wouldn't feel comfortable. I wouldn't be comfortable with women who weren't pregnant there either though.

persistentwoman · 07/01/2021 14:10

@Skysblue

I’m really sorry about the vaginismus OP, that sucks. I hope it improves.

Re the question, I would feel the same as you. When transpeople demand to police the language of others, they’re saying that their feelings about the meaning of words like men and ladies are more important than others’ feelings about the meaning of those words. You approached a support group where anyone would expect a female only space, and in joining were asked to confirm that your feelings aren’t as important as those of transpeople. Of course you were upset. Still, at least you found out quickly, and before you posted personal information, that it wasn’t a genuinely supportive female only space.

Great post. People like this are policing women to insist that we ignore our boundaries and right to consent in favour of obeying an aggressive ideology determined to erase our language, our identity and our rights to single sex spaces.
Ereshkigalangcleg · 07/01/2021 14:11

It's really hard to set up a female only group on Facebook, they get brigaded by troublemakers doing "activism". It would probably need to be a secret group and invitation only, and even then I've seen people screenshot private posts to cause trouble for women.

Branleuse · 07/01/2021 14:11

id just look for a different group. Some of the facebook groups are so woke central that they want to make sure they only give advice to other woke people and thats more important than helping people with a certain problem.

I tried to join an austic executive function life hacks group that wanted me to have the right opinion on whether white people experienced racism and whether all cops were bastards before accepting.
Fucking stupid question. I can imagine loads of autistics who were not US based would not answer that question satisfactorily

ZoeTurtle · 07/01/2021 14:11

@Ereshkigalangcleg

But everyone here will agree with you as MN is fiercly anti-trans

Surprisingly the largest community of mainly female people online doesn't really have any truck with female erasure.

No, plenty of us aren't transphobic. You don't speak for the whole "community."