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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Do I have a right to be angry about this? (Trans related)

999 replies

Nc109283485 · 07/01/2021 13:09

Nc for obvious reasons. This is a very personal issue to me which I am understandably sensitive about, so this may be why I feel this way. I am perfectly happy to be told I AMBU! I believe trans people deserve love and respect and a happy life just like everyone else. So why did this concern and anger me?

I have a condition called vaginismus which has been very traumatic and caused me lots of grief over my life. In my eyes it is a very personal and female problem. (Look if up if you're not sure what it is).

I have tried to join a support group on a social media platform to really get to the bottom of it and sort it out. I wont say which one as dont want to 'out' either myself or the group involved. My request was pending and a message sent. I assumed this was to confirm I definitely suffer from this condition and to make sure I wasn't some strange pervert, but no! The administrator messaged me to say that before I was accepted I would have to answer a 'test question' as this is a gender inclusive group. Will I be addressing group members as 'ladies, men or everyone'. The tone felt quite aggressive and if I did not pass this test I would not be admitted.

My first thought was are men allowed to enter this group? Do I really have to speak about my vagina in front of 'everyone'? Why not say hello ladies (and the occasional transman who currently has issues with their vagina) no I have to address everyone? Wtf?

I honestly don't know what to think right now but this group clearly isn't for me. But maybe I just need some re-education?

OP posts:
TheGreatWave · 07/01/2021 14:48

Anyway I am going to hide this thread, I should be working, not having to justify my concerns to people who have no fucking clue what it's like to have the condition.

Gncq · 07/01/2021 14:48

^what if some users don't want....

Original poster
Nc109283485 · 07/01/2021 14:48

@Ereshkigalangcleg

But some male partners may wish to join the support group if their female partners suffer from the condition so this doesn't always have to be a trans issue?

Many women wouldn't feel comfortable with this. Some things are too sensitive to want males present.

Also I am part of other groups that are strictly for women. So I am confused.
OP posts:
GetTheDebtGoneIn2021 · 07/01/2021 14:49

I’m so sorry, I accidentally clicked YABU!

OBVIOUSLY

YANBU!

tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz · 07/01/2021 14:49

I'd also be happy to be in a female health issue support group with FTM trans people. Unless they tried to impose their personal belief system on everyone else.

/////

This 100%. Like Soup said upthread I'd generally address any group regardless of sex with a quick "Hello everyone" so that's that out of the way. Later on however, when talking about the condition and how it's affecting me and my life it's highly likely I'd commit the cardinal slip of using the word Woman. Because this is a woman's condition. It happens to females and unfortunately biology won't give a stuff how one identifies. It just is.

Why should I be made to feel transphobic for talking about a female biology issue? This isn't right, truth should trump feelings every time when we're talking about a medical condition.

GetTheDebtGoneIn2021 · 07/01/2021 14:50

But some male partners may wish to join the support group if their female partners suffer from the condition

Tough. They can form a support group for partners of people with the condition.

RainingBatsAndFrogs · 07/01/2021 14:50

MN is NOT 'fiercely anti Trans'

Many feminists on MN are against the erasure of sex-based rights or sex-based identity being seen as oppressive or even 'murderous'.

Many MN feminists are against Trans women competing in women's' sport because of the continuing physical advantage.

Many MN feminists are unwilling to have their own identity categorised against a Trans identity.

This is not the same as being 'anti trans'.

OP: how do you personally feel about a Trans man being part of a group with the same problem as you? Do you feel able to discuss your issue with someone whose gender is presented as 'man'? If not this is not the group for you - and that is fine.

Personally I would be happy to discuss my gynaecological issues with anyone who also experiences them. Personally I think it good manners to address soomeone with the pronouns they prefer. And I can see that a Trans Man who has cause to be in such a group probably feels as sensitive about it as you do, and does not want to be faced with group members who react badly to their presence. So I think fair enough for group membership to flag up that inclusiveness of Transmen within that group is a thing.

I hope you find support, wherever it be and wherever is the right place for you.

Yours, a MN Feminist!

titchy · 07/01/2021 14:50

Honestly. If the group had replied 'Welcome, I hope you find this community a helpful and supportive place. Just to let you know we do have a small number of members who although are biologically female, choose to identify as men, so we generally refer to each other as 'everyone', rather than 'ladies'. I hope you understand our aim for inclusivity in this area.'

How much better would that have been. What a shame the group chooses to centre its inclusivity, rather than its support.

Seriouslymole · 07/01/2021 14:51

"Some men have vaginas"?? OMG, I've seriously fucking heard it all now.

SomewhereInbetween1 · 07/01/2021 14:52

I don't know why you're getting so upset about a group that you can ultimately choose not to join? No one is making you partake in conversations in a trans-inclusive space, so if you don't want to, just don't join? Instead you've come into to Mumsnet and made yet another goady post policing where you feel trans people should and shouldn't go, and where their voices can be heard. Just what we needed!

Viviennemary · 07/01/2021 14:53

It doesn't sound like it's the group for you. Find a different group. Why make an issue out of it.

CrotchBurn · 07/01/2021 14:53

We should start playing them at their own game.

In cases like the OP, you should reply saying you felt threatened and shamed as a woman with a lifelong condition, that you felt bullied and intimidated when you were simply looking for support. See what they reply and then insinuate you're going to lodge a complaint on the grounds of gender discrimination with FB (not that you have to go through with it)

CaraDuneRedux · 07/01/2021 14:53

@titchy

Honestly. If the group had replied 'Welcome, I hope you find this community a helpful and supportive place. Just to let you know we do have a small number of members who although are biologically female, choose to identify as men, so we generally refer to each other as 'everyone', rather than 'ladies'. I hope you understand our aim for inclusivity in this area.'

How much better would that have been. What a shame the group chooses to centre its inclusivity, rather than its support.

Yes, that would work fine.

It's making women's biology unsayable that's the problem. Any group which tries to do this can just fucking do one, as far as I'm concerned.

Lifeinthelastlane · 07/01/2021 14:53

I know people are focusing on trans men joining the group, but wouldn't it be just as likely it would be joined by trans women? (I can think of reasons why you might assume it wouldn't, but actually think that would be ignored)

ToadsThePeanutButterSnob · 07/01/2021 14:54

@SomewhereInbetween1

I don't know why you're getting so upset about a group that you can ultimately choose not to join? No one is making you partake in conversations in a trans-inclusive space, so if you don't want to, just don't join? Instead you've come into to Mumsnet and made yet another goady post policing where you feel trans people should and shouldn't go, and where their voices can be heard. Just what we needed!
You mean like how nobody made you read and reply to this thread? Yet you still did it anyway.
ItsIgginningtolookalotlikeXmas · 07/01/2021 14:54

What a shame the group chooses to centre its inclusivity, rather than its support
This is a great way to put it

WishingHopingThinkingPraying · 07/01/2021 14:55

Is it really so hard for you, or anyone, to just deal with people as people? Yes you have to have a vagina to have vaginismus so Its fine to expect all people in the group to either have a vagina or an expertise in vaginismus. But not all people with a vagina like or accept being called a woman. So can you not respect that their distress over being labeled a woman is far worse than your inconvenience around how you address people? No need to get all defensive. But it isn't exactly inclusive or kind of you to be affronted by this request.

AuntyPasta · 07/01/2021 14:55

I’d want to know whether you need a vagina to be in the group (as it’s about vaginismus) or if it’s open to the partners of those dealing with the issue. I wouldn’t want to be part of a group that accepted partners.

CaraDuneRedux · 07/01/2021 14:55

@Lifeinthelastlane

I know people are focusing on trans men joining the group, but wouldn't it be just as likely it would be joined by trans women? (I can think of reasons why you might assume it wouldn't, but actually think that would be ignored)
We'll, there was a case recently of a transwomen joining an antenatal group, and pregnant women who refused to go along with the delusion were ousted.
WishingHopingThinkingPraying · 07/01/2021 14:56

And clearly the group believes they can be inclusive AND supportive.

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 07/01/2021 14:56

A reasonable reply would be "I'm really looking for a women's vaginismus group, not a ladies' group or a men's group. Good luck to you all."

It's like a time warp to the 1960s. Who calls a group of women "ladies" and a group of men just "men" nowadays?

Lifeinthelastlane · 07/01/2021 14:56

@SomewhereInbetween1

I don't know why you're getting so upset about a group that you can ultimately choose not to join? No one is making you partake in conversations in a trans-inclusive space, so if you don't want to, just don't join? Instead you've come into to Mumsnet and made yet another goady post policing where you feel trans people should and shouldn't go, and where their voices can be heard. Just what we needed!
The selfishness in this post jumps out a mile. Think about the OP's experience of vaginismus for a moment. Yes of course she should be denied an avenue of support for this difficult issue. Hmm
Sheleg · 07/01/2021 14:58

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

Some males have vaginas.

Which ones?

WishingHopingThinkingPraying · 07/01/2021 14:59

Maybe if OP accepted the group was a vaginismus group rather than a women's group, she'd be a bit more accepting if what they are trying to do in terms of inclusivity?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 07/01/2021 15:01

We'll, there was a case recently of a transwomen joining an antenatal group, and pregnant women who refused to go along with the delusion were ousted.

I'm sure there is more than one case of this, but the one I'm familiar with is worse: MTF trans person wanted to simulate the experience of pregnancy and stillbirth (!) and joined a pregnancy group. Woke women tripped over themselves to show how terribly inclusive they were by fawning over them. A woman who had actually had a stillborn baby complained that it was offensive and deeply insensitive. Guess who got kicked out?