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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Do I have a right to be angry about this? (Trans related)

999 replies

Nc109283485 · 07/01/2021 13:09

Nc for obvious reasons. This is a very personal issue to me which I am understandably sensitive about, so this may be why I feel this way. I am perfectly happy to be told I AMBU! I believe trans people deserve love and respect and a happy life just like everyone else. So why did this concern and anger me?

I have a condition called vaginismus which has been very traumatic and caused me lots of grief over my life. In my eyes it is a very personal and female problem. (Look if up if you're not sure what it is).

I have tried to join a support group on a social media platform to really get to the bottom of it and sort it out. I wont say which one as dont want to 'out' either myself or the group involved. My request was pending and a message sent. I assumed this was to confirm I definitely suffer from this condition and to make sure I wasn't some strange pervert, but no! The administrator messaged me to say that before I was accepted I would have to answer a 'test question' as this is a gender inclusive group. Will I be addressing group members as 'ladies, men or everyone'. The tone felt quite aggressive and if I did not pass this test I would not be admitted.

My first thought was are men allowed to enter this group? Do I really have to speak about my vagina in front of 'everyone'? Why not say hello ladies (and the occasional transman who currently has issues with their vagina) no I have to address everyone? Wtf?

I honestly don't know what to think right now but this group clearly isn't for me. But maybe I just need some re-education?

OP posts:
DingDongDenny · 07/01/2021 13:25

It tells you something that their first communication to you wasn't 'how can we help you' but do you pass our woke test

What I don't understand is if they are supporting transwomen then is that actually vaginismus, or issues with dilation post-op and if it is transmen, than isn't that vaginal atrophy due to testostorone. Either way if it isn't vaginismus, why are they part of that group.

However, I could be wrong, perhaps someone else knows more about it

AwaAnBileYerHeid · 07/01/2021 13:26

@thebabessavedme

How is anti-trans to state that only women have vaginas?
It isn't; its biological fact.
WorkingItOutAsIGo · 07/01/2021 13:28

I see the word woman doesn’t appear on that support group website at all.

Such a dirty word, isn’t it.

WorkingItOutAsIGo · 07/01/2021 13:29

But OP, gender inclusive is fine. If that means single sex, any gender. I would happily be in a group with transmen.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 07/01/2021 13:30

I'm sure it's possible for all female people to have vaginismus. Non binary female people will not necessarily be taking hormones.

ConcreteUnderpants · 07/01/2021 13:32

^^
I’m sorry you feel pushed out and unable to get the support you need for something so important.

Without sounding goady, I wonder if the erectile disfunction/prostate cancer type groups have the same rules??

Ereshkigalangcleg · 07/01/2021 13:33

I'd also be happy to be in a female health issue support group with FTM trans people. Unless they tried to impose their personal belief system on everyone else.

Godimabitch · 07/01/2021 13:33

I think it's not the group for you and they didn't word it well which make me think it's a regular point of contention and I wouldn't want that in any group.

Being in a pregnancy group where we discuss our vaginas and boobs alot, I would be comfortable with a trans man being in the group if they were pre-op and pregnant as they have the same genitals and issues. But I wouldn't be comfortable with trans or cis men in the group because they're not discussing or experiencing the same issues. I wouldn't be comfortable with non pregnant women either tbh. I guess it's a participant vs spectator issue.

So I think, anyone in a group about a particular vaginal issue should be a sufferer of that vaginal issue, if they are, their gender or sexual orientation would be irrelevant to me.

Orf1abc · 07/01/2021 13:34

I am also aware that this does not make me inclusive and I don't like that feeling.

Then make a change to be more inclusive. Not difficult is it? You're making an issue about nothing.

(And you know you're not going to get a balance of views on MN. Anything with trans in the title draws in the nasties.)

midgebabe · 07/01/2021 13:35

"I am totally happy for any person of any gender to be in the group. I would like reassurance that it is single sex s as I have heard some scary rumours about male participation being allowed "

Ereshkigalangcleg · 07/01/2021 13:35

Being in a pregnancy group where we discuss our vaginas and boobs alot, I would be comfortable with a trans man being in the group if they were pre-op and pregnant as they have the same genitals and issues. But I wouldn't be comfortable with trans or cis men in the group because they're not discussing or experiencing the same issues. I wouldn't be comfortable with non pregnant women either tbh. I guess it's a participant vs spectator issue.

How about an MTF trans person? Pre or post op?

Cheeseandwin5 · 07/01/2021 13:35

I have voted that YABU, not becuase your concerns are not correct , althought to be fair I dont agree with them, but because its their group and they can police and regulated it as they see fit.
If you dont like it dont join.
If there are no other groups, than you need to ask yourself why.

Babdoc · 07/01/2021 13:35

I wouldn't touch this group with a barge pole, OP. Their primary concern is obviously woke virtue signalling by grovelling to demands for women’s erasure, not trying to help actual women patients with a difficult medical problem that only affects women.
I would instead ask your GP what help is available via the NHS.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 07/01/2021 13:36

Anything with trans in the title draws in the nasties.)

No, just women concerned with women's rights.

Twistiesandshout · 07/01/2021 13:41

Oh for fucks sake. So over this woke crap. People are free to be who they want how they want but biology is immutable. Women have vaginas. Transmen are biological women, hence only women have vaginas.

FraggleShingleBellRock · 07/01/2021 13:41

@TheLovleyChebbyMcGee

"Mumsnet is very anti-trans so you likely won't get a balanced answer here"

It is not anti trans to say that vaginas are only found on women and girls and as such are a female issue. Why would men need to be in that group for a very specific biological issues that do not relate to them? And if a woman's own reality meant that she was triggered so badly I would very gently suggest that she seek support. Vaginismus would be the least of her worries if she was relying on the rest of the world to validate a lie in order to make her happy.

A male that has a neo vagina, a pocket, inserted into a pelvic cavity is not a woman and they lack the vaginal structure to suffer from women's issues. Theirs does not stretch, self lubricate, menstruate, contract or deliver little people into the world. Saying a man with a fake vagina pocket is a woman is like saying a man is an elephant because he can squirt liquid out of a dangly bodily appendage.

Women wanting women only spaces should be fully supported. I've got no issues with a side group for men to get support if their wife/oh has vaginismus but women NEED private sex protected places.

Spidey66 · 07/01/2021 13:43

A very good longstanding friend of mine, who I have known through work for nearly 20 years and have socialised with many times, recently 'came out' on FB as being a transman. I was surprised, though it does explain why he is quite small and slight. All these years I thought he was a gay man (has been in the same relationship the whole time I've known him. He had written an article which he uploaded to his FB. In it, he explained he had had hormonal treatment and a mastectomy but no surgery to his genitals (though I'm not sure if he's had a hysterectomy....none of my business.) So, yes, he's a man with female genitals.

Aside from that, would the group possibly include sufferers partners, who are there to support them?

thebabessavedme · 07/01/2021 13:43

@Ereshkigalangcleg, I agree, why is it 'nasty' to concerned about womens rights?

CabinClose · 07/01/2021 13:43

If your concern is that there might be people without vaginas in the group, why don’t you just ask whether the group is restricted to people with vaginas? That’s an entirely different to wanting some bizarre right to address the group as ‘ladies’.

Emeeno1 · 07/01/2021 13:43

Some men have vaginas.

Repeat after me 2 + 2 = 5.

CecilyP · 07/01/2021 13:43

Their primary concern is obviously woke virtue signalling by grovelling to demands for women’s erasure, not trying to help actual women patients with a difficult medical problem that only affects women.

This! Honestly, why would you need to address them as anything? We manage to ask a question or make a contribution on Mumsnet without addressing each other with ‘Hello ladies’ and suchlike. If we want to address or reply to a specific person we just use their username!

CurbsideProphet · 07/01/2021 13:43

"Some men have vaginas".

No, they don't. Biological women have vaginas. It baffles me that this is up for discussion.

I'm really sorry this happened to you. I agree about asking your GP for a referral to specialist women's health / Gynaecology.

newyearnewname123 · 07/01/2021 13:49

some men do have vaginas

Words have to have common meanings or no-one knows what you are talking about. You are completely misusing the word man here. Unless by vagina you mean penis?

Start to see the problem?

Spidey66 · 07/01/2021 13:49

I am well aware that MN being MN will say my friend is a woman. In my eyes, he's a man, I've always seen him as a man, that's how he'll always be IMO. And I don't want him in the ladies changing room down the gym. He's got a beard. Wink

I've always had a lot of respect for him as a friend and a colleague, he's such a lovely man. My respect for him actually went up when I found that out about him, it must have been quite hard to come out to people you've known for years who didn't know that about him.

MistressoftheDarkSide · 07/01/2021 13:50

OP you have my sympathies.

And let's not beat about the Bush here. Trans men may well still be biologically women and pre op may well have particular relevant medical issues, but if they identify as men and are at odds with their genitalia, then why would a condition such as this have a huge bearing on their lives and require support, because dysphoria surely means they wish to ignore the functions of their biology? Or as we have apparently "female" penises are vaginas Male in some circumstances? I really don't get it. But then I'm old and bigoted apparently despite having several trans friends of all stripes who I am happy to see living their best lives identifying how they choose.

It's a sorry mess is what it all is and the upshot is women trying themselves in knots when seeking support for intimate issues first having to prove they are woke enough to be included. That's not inclusive at all. Where is your right to be included as a woman?