Capitol Hill and the next 2 weeks (Trump #118)

[Roussette]

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4128051-Coup-on-Capitol-Hill-Trump-117

Fast moving threads....

@BruceAndNosh

The thing is, Trump supporters are a much more heterogenous group than we give them credit for. There are plenty of educated middle class professionals who vote for Trump. God knows why, but that is their right.

If it's anything like the UK, it'll be "There's the Red, that's my vote". (or Blue).

What such people fail to grasp (kinda because they are dim) is that the moment you give your undying loyalty to a political party you have effectively invited them to bend you over and ease it in slowly without lubricant.

Repeatedly.

It's those pesky swing voters - the ones who actually make an informed decision as to who to vote for - that used to determine the outcome.

When somebody tells me "I always vote " all I ever hear is "I am a fuckwit, please abuse me."

Probably best not talk about people who don't vote ...

I'm sure the rest of the world is -- I'm also willing to stake my bet that America isn't, and that the majority are hoping for a return to status quo at best. [] Not as far as I can see in the media, social media and private messages

Date: 23rd March 2020
Location: Birmingham UK
Incident: Person informed about lockdown and reasons for it - the pandemic currently sweeping the world leaving tens of thousands dead and seriously ill in its wake.
Response: But I'll be able to go to Spain for Easter, won't I ?

I have very little to no faith there's much real appetite for change. Not yet. Which is why the next pandemic will hit hard.

Swing voters in the US are not more informed than anyone else. It's just that their primary interests are not uniformly on one side of the party divide or the other.

@Wherrsmaclickypen

Amidst all the madness, some of which was predictable and largely preventable I simply cant get over the white, stupid entitlement of little wailing maced Elizabeth from Knoxville. She simply had no fear of authority or of being shot, did she, with cultish belief in her moral superiority and 'rightness', How this would have played out so differently if the protestors were black or muslim doesnt bear thinking about. A glimpse of how it must be for so many American citizens. Very sad.

On another forum, someone has posted a picture which seems to show that she is holding a peeled onion in a cloth in her hand.

People are questioning whether she was actually maced at all.

@Cacacoisfarraige

Have they restarted the Georgia counts yet. I saw Brad Raff had to send the counters home as there were some very dodgy people with weapons congregating outside

What recounts? Both seats have been called and agreed.

@dreamingbohemian

Swing voters in the US are not more informed than anyone else. It's just that their primary interests are not uniformly on one side of the party divide or the other.

Yes. But then need more than your rosette to vote for - ideally some policy they quite like.

Not ignoring the majority that didn't vote for the winner is probably a good place to start, if you want to encourage informed political debate.

In days of yore that was accomplished by the inculcation of the weakest of senses of civic duty in enough people to generally keep the train grinding along the track.

But now we've decided that was a bit too elitist, we're left with having to find other ways. Personally I like sortition, but in a good example of how difficult change is, even if everyone on this thread agreed (and they won't) it would still never happen.

One thing wars and revolutions can achieve - at horrendous cost - is to eliminate the vested interests that tend to strangle moves to equality.

However, evern writing that, in England, which has seen countless wars, civil wars and religious revolution, the vested interests are pretty much what they were in 1066. Which was the last time we had what my DF would call "pulito piazza"

BruceAndNosh
The thing is, Trump supporters are a much more heterogenous group than we give them credit for. There are plenty of educated middle class professionals who vote for Trump. God knows why, but that is their right.

They're not all actually voting for Trump. Some of them are dyed-in-the-wool Republicans who would never consider voting Democrat. These include evangelical Christians who care only about banning abortion and gay marriage.

Should we not think post America now as evidently they are far from an ideal model society given the inherent dysfunctional nature of their diversity of peoples.

They were respectable historically but now we need to follow other suitable world leaders. No more any sole dominant force but many smaller leaders with unity and humanity at heart. In the so called western world I would put forward the New Zealand head Jacinda Ardern as a good candidate with all the right true leadership qualities.

twitter.com/PhilipinDC/status/1347028917685800961
This is an interesting view of how the mob got into the crowd. To say security didn't do anything doesn't look entirely true from this.

They're not all actually voting for Trump. Some of them are dyed-in-the-wool Republicans who would never consider voting Democrat. These include evangelical Christians who care only about banning abortion and gay marriage.

A cure for a lot of ills would be a principle that people keep their noses out of other peoples businesses.

Failing that, calling out the hypocrisy of all religions is a start. Isn't that what God gave you the 1st amendment for ?

@ResIpsaLoquiturInterAlia

Should we not think post America now as evidently they are far from an ideal model society given the inherent dysfunctional nature of their diversity of peoples.

They were respectable historically but now we need to follow other suitable world leaders. No more any sole dominant force but many smaller leaders with unity and humanity at heart. In the so called western world I would put forward the New Zealand head Jacinda Ardern as a good candidate with all the right true leadership qualities.

They were respectable historically

That probably deserves it's own internet to discuss.

The final one made me smile

www.buzzfeednews.com/article/briannasacks/west-virginia-republican-delegate-storms-capitol

@RedToothBrush

twitter.com/PhilipinDC/status/1347028917685800961 This is an interesting view of how the mob got into the crowd. To say security didn't do anything doesn't look entirely true from this.

Sometimes its hard not to feel a tad sorry for the police. If they don't change their tactics; they get the blame. If they do ... they get the blame. Usually as a result of the dim reading or watching the dim and thinking they "know" something.

I have no idea what the various agencies on duty in DC yesterday were given as instructions or guidelines. However I'd like to believe that very near the top - if not at the top - was make sure nobody gets hurt

that being the case, it looks like they might have succeeded in the main.

However, if peoples impression was that the police should kick some butt then obviously it looks like they "failed". But only because you are dim. Not because they failed.

I'm also well aware of how this may look following the BLM protests last year. But maybe the police did learn from them ? And this is the result ?

(Given the only way to test that (and that's not entirely true) would be to stage a similar BLM protest and see what happens, we're going to have to come to our own conclusions.)

However, the US is no stranger to police shooting demonstrators - of any colour - it's a miracle or good planning that there weren't more deaths and casualties last night. And given that the demonstrators appeared to be more of a risk to themselves than police, that's quite something.

MSNBC
@MSNBC
·
9m

'BREAKING: Zuckerberg says Facebook and Instagram are blocking President Trump from using their services indefinitely.'

@lionheart

MSNBC *@MSNBC* · 9m

'BREAKING: Zuckerberg says Facebook and Instagram are blocking President Trump from using their services indefinitely.'

Wither Twitter ?

DGR, I do wonder what the police could have done differently yesterday. If in the situation in the video, they had got a gun out even to fire a warning shot, what would have happened?

If they had shot at the mob, how long would the police there have lived?

The situation had already not been managed at the point the crowds had been able to gather in the way they had.

Eamon Javers @EamonJavers
I am told to expect a number of federal criminal charges to be filed today against people involved in yesterday’s lawlessness in Washington. Details to come.

I've been following this closely past few weeks and new to these threads - so please be gentle!

I've read today that when the BLM rallies took place Trump wrote on Twitter calling fir them to be taken down? That they were criminals/thugs etc and this behaviour shouldn't accepted?

Yet it seems he had a rally yesterday where he actually seemed to call his supporters to arms and do exactly what they did?

If I've understood right then the racism in America and coming from the current leader is far worse than I thought and understood.

I thought Joe Bidens plea to Trump to call for peace was very calm and measured.

Full statement from Mark Zukerberg:

The shocking events of the last 24 hours clearly demonstrate that President Donald Trump intends to use his remaining time in office to undermine the peaceful and lawful transition of power to his elected successor, Joe Biden.

His decision to use his platform to condone rather than condemn the actions of his supporters at the Capitol building has rightly disturbed people in the US and around the world. We removed these statements yesterday because we judged that their effect and likely their intent would be to provoke further violence.

Following the certification of the election results by Congress, the priority for the whole country must now be to ensure that the remaining 13 days and the days after inauguration pass peacefully and in accordance with established democratic norms.

Over the last several years, we have allowed President Trump to use our platform consistent with our own rules, at times removing content or labeling his posts when they violate our policies. We did this because we believe that the public has a right to the broadest possible access to political speech, even controversial speech. But the current context is now fundamentally different, involving use of our platform to incite violent insurrection against a democratically elected government.

We believe the risks of allowing the President to continue to use our service during this period are simply too great. Therefore, we are extending the block we have placed on his Facebook and Instagram accounts indefinitely and for at least the next two weeks until the peaceful transition of power is complete.

One Republican calls for 25th:

twitter.com/i/status/1347207878801846276

@RedToothBrush

twitter.com/PhilipinDC/status/1347028917685800961 This is an interesting view of how the mob got into the crowd. To say security didn't do anything doesn't look entirely true from this.

But that's still rubbish policing. They created a kind of badly-defended holding area into which the march was directed. It's kind of inevitable they would break through.

@RedToothBrush

DGR, I do wonder what the police could have done differently yesterday. If in the situation in the video, they had got a gun out even to fire a warning shot, what would have happened?

If they had shot at the mob, how long would the police there have lived?

The situation had already not been managed at the point the crowds had been able to gather in the way they had.

Eamon Javers @EamonJavers
I am told to expect a number of federal criminal charges to be filed today against people involved in yesterday’s lawlessness in Washington. Details to come.

Well they could have deployed more officers to prevent the breach in the first place. There is zero reason why that didn't happen. There has been massive security presence at every BLM and left-wing protest for years. The plan to storm the Capitol yesterday was no secret.

Up to now the police have had no trouble shooting into crowds, driving their cars into crowds, beating old people and teenagers, tear gassing peaceful protests -- just not when it's white supremacists.

Notice they did clear the building quite quickly later on with a few flash bangs and some tear gas.

@itsgettingweird

I've been following this closely past few weeks and new to these threads - so please be gentle!

I've read today that when the BLM rallies took place Trump wrote on Twitter calling fir them to be taken down? That they were criminals/thugs etc and this behaviour shouldn't accepted?

Yet it seems he had a rally yesterday where he actually seemed to call his supporters to arms and do exactly what they did?

If I've understood right then the racism in America and coming from the current leader is far worse than I thought and understood.

I thought Joe Bidens plea to Trump to call for peace was very calm and measured.

Yes.

Compared with House of Commons security
especially on a day with known events
its atrocious

Would UK protestors ever have made it to the Speaker's chair on a day when Parliament was sitting ?