Capitol Hill and the next 2 weeks (Trump #118)

[Roussette]

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4128051-Coup-on-Capitol-Hill-Trump-117

Fast moving threads....

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[quote ChazsBrilliantAttitude]@DGRossetti
I have to point out that Boris Johnson read Classics!
Not everyone learns from their studies.[/quote]
I think Johnson learnt many of the lessons from the classics that Trump learnt in life - as in the wrong ones! He sees himself as the heroic figure rather than the arrogant one that the Gods punish. He has had a charmed life and never been held to account for anything (like Trump).

Whats most fascinating about Johnson at the moment is that this is manifesting as over optimism about everything. He is completely incapable of preparing for the worst and hoping for better - partly because he doesn't understand logistics and data at all (he is most definitely not good with science and maths). He thinks it will be better and then is forced to scramble around to fix things as a result. As a guest pointed out on Newsnight earlier in the week, he makes the cardinal political sin of 'overpromising and underdelivering' rather than 'underpromising and overdelivering' on covid (and we will find the same on Brexit too in due course). It will be his undoing in the end and why history will never look back on him with too much favour.

Trump isn't quite the same. And he certainly has never promised anything on covid.

@ListeningQuietly

The Democrats have a massive interest in reducing Gerrymandering and increasing Electoral participation (redistricting will increase the number of State seats they hold)

So I see good reasons why they will push ahead with it.

They also have a massive interest in keeping their jobs, and the "old way" got them elected. Call me cynical but I don't believe they're in it for real change. We had 8 years to manage it on a surge of energy from Obama and we didn't.

@RedToothBrush

I think Biden needs to make a much bigger effort in genuinely reaching out to the disenfranchised masses.

Care to explain why they are disenfranchised rather than merely misinformed?

Trump supporters dont face barriers to voting.
Trump supporters dont come from the most economically deprived group.

Exactly these last two points. 100%. I am so tired of this lazy, entitled group.

Whew! Reading (well, skimming) from my last post on the last thread to this point was a lot of catching up to do!

I have to admit I've woken up this morning almost feeling numb. I can't even think of the questions that need to be answered, much less the answers themselves. Where do we go from here?

It's been interesting to read the posts having to do with education and critical thinking. Now, my school days were back during the height of Cold War and my son's in the 90s, but I can tell you that one major fault in our educations was the lack of the teaching of critical thinking We were taught dates and names and to vomit up 'pro-American' facts. DS1 actually got a failing grade on a well-written paper in his Civics class simply because his point of view disagreed with the (Conservative) teacher's point of view. And if it weren't for the fact that during my 4 high school years I had a history teacher grounded in the Socratic method (and indeed was Greek himself) and who taught us to question ourselves and those around us, who knows who I might have become.

The idiots and insurrectionists we saw yesterday are a result of (IMO) a lack of critical thinking skills and 'Reagan's America' of greed and selfishness.

OK, rant over. Do I think we've heard the end of Scrotus before the Inauguration? I don't know. I honestly think a 'delegation' of his erstwhile loyalists threatened him with Article 25 if he didn't stop his agitating and incitement. I think they're holding it over his head. So, to me it all depends on how much self-control fear he has of the humiliation of being forcibly removed from office before the 20th.

Sorry if this has already been covered, I'm trying to keep up with the threads but it's just moving too fast!

Hypothetically - if they invoked the 25th and Pence became President for the next two weeks - would that count towards the term limit?

Yes if the Dems reduce gerrymandering, reduce voting restrictions, and give DC statehood, they will be well set up going forward.

Of course being the Democrats they're just as likely to blow the next two years and not do anything, like last time

Obama's first term didn't do as much as it could because he wanted reelection. His second was characterised by not having control of the Senate.

Biden wants to do one term only - and i think the sense of duty to the country as a whole to go with it - and he has control of the Senate. He has the benefits of the failures of the Obama years (this is potentially a real asset).

How Harris fits into this dynamic is the more interesting piece of the puzzle...

They also have a massive interest in keeping their jobs, and the "old way" got them elected. Call me cynical but I don't believe they're in it for real change. We had 8 years to manage it on a surge of energy from Obama and we didn't.

I've always read it as attributed to Arthur C Clarke ... when asked why some scientific ideas seem to suddenly mainstream he replied "Old people die."

Returning to Brexit (and I think anyone who thinks it's not relevant hasn't been paying attention these past years) that's one reason why it became increasingly desperate, and the breakneck speed to smash it though before anyone had a chance to take stock. The generation that swung it won't be around (if they still are) in 5 years time.

I still can't get over how the demonstrators got into the building so easily? At the entrance to the Houses of Parliament there are police officers with machine guns, so where were the police outside Capitol Hill? Especially compared to the huge police presence when there were BLM protests.

@LittleMissNaice

Sorry if this has already been covered, I'm trying to keep up with the threads but it's just moving too fast!

Hypothetically - if they invoked the 25th and Pence became President for the next two weeks - would that count towards the term limit?

Well he technically could never become President in the time left. Only Acting President pending a vote... (that would never happen)

Plus the 22nd Amendment details that:
A person cannot be elected president more than twice.
If a person has served more than two years of a term to which someone else was elected (for example, if the President died and the Vice President took over for him), that person cannot be elected more than once.

So it wouldn't be relevant to Pence.

@Destinysdaughter

I still can't get over how the demonstrators got into the building so easily? At the entrance to the Houses of Parliament there are police officers with machine guns, so where were the police outside Capitol Hill? Especially compared to the huge police presence when there were BLM protests.

Jay Kuo, who has been a beacon of sanity for me as we stumble through the process, posted a video yesterday of the police simply...opening the barriers and allowing them through.

gwenneh
We had 8 years to manage it on a surge of energy from Obama and we didn't.
Obama only had two years until Gingrich and McConnell took the Senate

Sorry, they took Congress first ....
Obama only had 2 years of no blockages

@ListeningQuietly

gwenneh We had 8 years to manage it on a surge of energy from Obama and we didn't. Obama only had two years until Gingrich and McConnell took the Senate

Still two years of doing fuck-all about gerrymandering, which could arguably have prevented what happened in the second two if it had been a priority to correct.

I maintain that it was not a priority then and it won't be one now.

The generation that swung it won't be around (if they still are) in 5 years time.

Its always amused me that Johnson's failure to get a grip on the pandemic quickly really does work against future Tory Party electoral interests.

Gwenneh
The fact that it was not done then is History.

But now the whole world is looking at American democracy through a different lens

Reporter on LBC describing 'scenes from the French Revolution'
of course we know who will play the part of Marie Antoinette..

Interesting drama series being repeated on Radio 4 at the moment "The Republicans". Puts flesh on the bones from Reagan onwards. All on iplayer
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0000n3c

@ListeningQuietly

Gwenneh The fact that it was not done then is History.

But now the whole world is looking at American democracy through a different lens

I'm sure the rest of the world is -- I'm also willing to stake my bet that America isn't, and that the majority are hoping for a return to status quo at best.

Gerrymandering will be a tough fight but I agree they will give it a go. The situation today is very different from 2008, and there is a more progressive Democratic caucus.

It will probably be easier to tackle voting rights first though.

I still can't get over how the demonstrators got into the building so easily? At the entrance to the Houses of Parliament there are police officers with machine guns, so where were the police outside Capitol Hill? Especially compared to the huge police presence when there were BLM protests.

Of course a cosseted ruling class, insulated from the people whose lives they affect with their rules doesn't lead to the best government.

With the handy magic word "terrorism" (oh yes, we still have magic words in the 21st century - arguably more powerful than Abracadabra) lawmakers can disguise the fact they fear normal people much more than the odd nutter.

The thing is, Trump supporters are a much more heterogenous group than we give them credit for. There are plenty of educated middle class professionals who vote for Trump. God knows why, but that is their right.

I missed nearly all of the pervious thread so forgive me if this has been mentioned...

Before it all got nasty, the following made me laugh.
Some tweeted with a link to one of the opening acts pre Trumps appearance, a bloke just shouting FUCK ANTIFA over and again
"Why does this man want to fuck my Aunt Aoife so much"

(Aoife is pronounced Eefa )

I'm sure the rest of the world is -- I'm also willing to stake my bet that America isn't, and that the majority are hoping for a return to status quo at best.
Not as far as I can see in the media, social media and private messages

Is gerrymandering not a state issue ? It would end up in the Supreme court
Yes and no.
THere are many paths to the same end goal