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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Capitol Hill and the next 2 weeks (Trump #118)

999 replies

Roussette · 07/01/2021 10:52

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4128051-Coup-on-Capitol-Hill-Trump-117

Fast moving threads....

OP posts:
Thread gallery
43
Lweji · 08/01/2021 14:18

Note to self: if you participate in a riot to overcome a democratic process and invade a public building, do NOT wear your work badge.

metro.co.uk/2021/01/08/capitol-riots-trump-rioter-sacked-after-seen-wearing-his-work-badge-13870022/

user1471565182 · 08/01/2021 14:19

ohhh elizabeth

DGRossetti · 08/01/2021 14:20

@user1471565182

Dont know about anybody else but im getting really, really fed up of the 'oh we musnt do that, we cant say that, we cant apply that law, it'l make them a matyr' shit. Neville Chamberlain would have been proud. If these protective processes had been used to their full potential years ago we wouldnt be dealing with this fascist shit.
I think it's entirely possible that Chamberlain nobly accepted his fate to be forever damned by historical dilettantes as a figure of ridicule, if not hate. One of the last more honourable politicians.

Whether by accident, or part of a plan, his relationship with Hitler allowed the UK precious months to prepare for war - and even then it was touch and go.

If Britain had waded in in 1936 - or even 1938, we could have lost.

Just my view, but it's not unique.

By contrast Roosevelt did a hell of a lot to help Britain - even against a sceptical Congress.

ThatIsNotMyUsername · 08/01/2021 14:20

[quote Lweji]Note to self: if you participate in a riot to overcome a democratic process and invade a public building, do NOT wear your work badge.

metro.co.uk/2021/01/08/capitol-riots-trump-rioter-sacked-after-seen-wearing-his-work-badge-13870022/[/quote]
Made even more amusing by his company’s decision the ‘terminate him’ (causes a load of tweets saying that while sacking him was understandable, this may have been a step too far...)

Coquohvan · 08/01/2021 14:21

Love how it’s called an ‘indiscretion’ when broken the law. Follows a crowd to see what’s going on behind a door. Ok then!

DGRossetti · 08/01/2021 14:21

[quote user1471565182]ohhh elizabeth

[/quote] My DB lives in Knoxville. And the girl he bought to our wedding was called "Elisabeth" Hmm As I recall she was from South Virginia though.
Roussette · 08/01/2021 14:21

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/08/trump-incites-anger-among-acolytes-let-down-by-lack-of-support

oh booohoooo. They are beside themselves at Trump's speech last night.

OP posts:
BruceAndNosh · 08/01/2021 14:24

@Mittens030869

I really can't believe that anyone can believe that Antifa was involved with people dressing up as Trump supporters. A lot of them were interviewing and were clearly deluded Trump fans.
Twitter is full of "these aren't Trump supporters"
terrywynne · 08/01/2021 14:25

@user1471565182

Dont know about anybody else but im getting really, really fed up of the 'oh we musnt do that, we cant say that, we cant apply that law, it'l make them a matyr' shit. Neville Chamberlain would have been proud. If these protective processes had been used to their full potential years ago we wouldnt be dealing with this fascist shit.
I agree. People are running scared of a possible threat which may not even occur. You can certainly question the exact repercussion and how to target it ie: go after Trump and ringleaders but not the masses. (I am feeling a bit Peasant's revolt here). But at some point something has to be done or the next Trump will be emboldened to go further.
DGRossetti · 08/01/2021 14:25

@Coquohvan

Love how it’s called an ‘indiscretion’ when broken the law. Follows a crowd to see what’s going on behind a door. Ok then!
It's one of those irregular words isn't it.

Like "scuffle".

dreamingbohemian · 08/01/2021 14:26

@FinallyHere

Re: the pardons. Firstly a pardon is a bit of a clue that you have done something illegal and the pardon can only apply to federal crimes/courts.

There are plenty of charges in state courts just waiting for his presidential exemption to run out.

Exactly. They've been preparing charges in New York for quite a while now, waiting for him to be out of office. Mostly around corruption and tax evasion kind of stuff but who cares, just hold him accountable for something already.
DGRossetti · 08/01/2021 14:29

Part of me feels that he might actually want to go to court ... I can imagine it now ..

Mr. Trump, how do you plead ?

This is a court of law, right ? Well in that case, it's the law that I am president. And this court has to investigate how the election was stolen. When this court does, it will find that I am president, so cannot be illegal [sic] ....

Or so I wrote in the script I submitted for Homeland S9

BruceAndNosh · 08/01/2021 14:31

I'd love it if Trump pardons Pence, then resigns on the 19th making Pence acting President.
Then Pence declines to pardon Trump for stabbing him in the back

DGRossetti · 08/01/2021 14:32

There are plenty of charges in state courts just waiting for his presidential exemption to run out.

I thought there's no such thing as presidential exemption ? As Nixon discovered (although he maintained it to the end).

The reason the last attempt to impeach Trump failed was the Senate refused to back it. With one Senator saying "-since we're so close to the election, the Amercian people are the best judge-"

DGRossetti · 08/01/2021 14:32

@BruceAndNosh

I'd love it if Trump pardons Pence, then resigns on the 19th making Pence acting President. Then Pence declines to pardon Trump for stabbing him in the back
What does Pence need pardoning for ?
Roussette · 08/01/2021 14:33

Charges so far for protestors/domestic terrorists

Capitol Hill and the next 2 weeks (Trump #118)
OP posts:
Roussette · 08/01/2021 14:34

Ooops try again

Capitol Hill and the next 2 weeks (Trump #118)
OP posts:
DGRossetti · 08/01/2021 14:34

[quote lionheart]www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-01-08/san-diego-woman-ashli-babbitt-dc-capitol-riot[/quote]
More godawful folk music ! The humanity !!!!!

...
What makes you go abroad fighting for strangers
When you could be safe at home free from all dangers?
...

dreamingbohemian · 08/01/2021 14:39

I don't think there's any legal basis for a state court to bring charges against a sitting president. When his terms ends he's a private citizen again so all bets are off.

dreamingbohemian · 08/01/2021 14:42

One thing I hope the Dems will do in the next two years is put into law a lot more restrictions on presidential corruption. Until now it's just been ethics and norms -- presidents didn't want to appear corrupt and so they would for example sell any existing commercial interests, release their tax returns, etc. This should all be required legally from now on.

AcrossthePond55 · 08/01/2021 14:45

My understanding is that both Houses of Congress have adjourned until the 19th so I'm not sure how they're going to proceed with an impeachment, unless the House Judiciary Cmte is still there waiting to formally accept and deal with submitted Articles of Impeachment (AoI). That's the 1st step.

Basic procedures:

1- Investigation typically begins in the House Judiciary Committee. They accept submitted AoI then debate and vote on them.

2-House of Representatives must pass the AoI by a simple majority. Upon passage, the defendant has been "impeached". Referred to the Senate for trial.

3- The Senate tries the accused. Conviction in the Senate requires the concurrence of a two-thirds (67) of those present. The result of conviction is removal from office.

4-Separate vote must be taken regarding the lifetime ban from holding any federal office.

I can't imagine they can get that all done in 11 days. Even if the House does get through steps 1 and 2 (and they have the numbers to do so), I don't believe they can get 17 Repug Senators to jump ship to rush through setting procedures and then voting to remove from office.

Remember, impeachment by itself doesn't do jack shit. It's the same as pointing fingers and saying "Shame on you!!!". It's the Senate removal/lifetime ban that actually accomplishes anything.

I mean, go ahead and impeach just to give him the stigma of being the only POTUS to be impeach twice. Problem is, Scrotus and his cult are so out of touch with reality that the only thing they'll 'know' is that he 'beat the rap' twice because he wasn't removed from office.

They might have a better chance at Article 25. Pence has to submit it, but the Cabinet doesn't have the sole authority to approve it. That can be done by a 'review body' appointed in Congress.

But we're back to the same thing; you need a 'supermajority' (2/3) to approve it. And the Dems don't have that in either Chamber of Congress and I doubt they can get the requisite number of Repugs to jump ship.

I say the best thing is to just hog-tie him and lock him in a closet for the next 12 days.

DGRossetti · 08/01/2021 14:45

@dreamingbohemian

I don't think there's any legal basis for a state court to bring charges against a sitting president. When his terms ends he's a private citizen again so all bets are off.
Can federal officers (what POTUS is ?) be prosecuted in state courts anyway ?

The reason you have to impeach POTUS is that is how it's set out in the constitution. However "I'm president" isn't a defence to the act. And as SCOTUS ruled in 1974, "being President" does not provide any exemptions from the provisions of law.

Sadly, the Constitution also provides the ultimate failsafe when all else has failed. When events or people or both take a turn that the Founding Fathers could not have anticipated or believed possible.

Lweji · 08/01/2021 14:50

Or so I wrote in the script I submitted for Homeland S9

There's a thought.

If he is impeached he will be the only President so far to be impeached twice, impeached after losing an election, and, possibly(?) that didn't win the popular vote twice.

www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55571964 (2x impeachment)
fivethirtyeight.com/features/trump-impeachment-acquitted/ (time of impeachment)

Considering he is also a one term President, isn't welcome back in his home town, has lost all his Election appeals, and is now loathed by his fan base, how high in the loser scale is he now?

This was in November: www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/11/07/donald-trump-is-a-loser-434103