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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think a marriage certificate should be addressed to both people?

155 replies

wealllikespuppies · 07/01/2021 10:29

some background, me and my husband got married last week (just before the lockdown).

received our wedding certificate in the post the other day. we live together, but only one name was written on the envelope - my husband's.

i've emailed them querying this, stating that it seems sexist and that a marriage by definition is a union between two people, so surely it seems a bit silly only to address it to one person? i know it's not a big deal in the grand scheme of things, but it also is a big deal in that it's important, and also, the ceremony (the cheapest one available) cost over £150, so i'd expect the small details to be paid attention to.

I've had a reply this morning, with the ultimate fake apology 'I'm sorry you feel that way'. along with a statement that 'there is not enough space on the envelope to include the names of all parties' and that 'we can't assume one person will take the surname of their husband/wife' (which is contradictory with the fact my husband's surname was used on the envelope, so an assumption has clearly been made).

I've replied stating I feel this isn't really an acceptable excuse, and I've encouraged them to consider my feedback in future correspondence with clients.

I know I am being petty over this but would anyone else find it super annoying and demoralising? I'm going to just let it go but it really has peed me off this morning (and on my day off work as well :'( )

OP posts:
VinylDetective · 07/01/2021 21:21

Am not sure what annoys me more. The sexism of it or the way it's just accepted by so many

Yep, it’s a real bummer when people don’t agree with you, isn’t it?

Alonelonelyloner · 07/01/2021 21:33

Gawd this thread is so depressing.
I get that some women don't believe in micro aggressions or micro 'sexisms' but that it doesn't bother so many people really makes me sad.
When my husband and I opened a bank account about ten years ago I named myself as first account holder. I even asked the bank if I would be named first and when the letter/cheque books came they were Mr and Ms Man's initial surname. It drove me wild. A pp saying this doesn't happen is so far off.

tilder · 07/01/2021 22:42

@VinylDetective

Am not sure what annoys me more. The sexism of it or the way it's just accepted by so many

Yep, it’s a real bummer when people don’t agree with you, isn’t it?

A bummer that so many women are complicit in sexism? Yep.
VanGoghsDog · 07/01/2021 22:47

When I moved in with (now ex) dp, the mortgage company sent 'welcome to your new home' flowers just to him. They also said they couldn't fit both names on the envelope. It was a joint mortgage. Bet they'd suddenly remember my name if it didn't get paid!

I complained. They sent me £30 as an apology.

Newkitchen123 · 08/01/2021 09:58

@Alonelonelyloner

Gawd this thread is so depressing. I get that some women don't believe in micro aggressions or micro 'sexisms' but that it doesn't bother so many people really makes me sad. When my husband and I opened a bank account about ten years ago I named myself as first account holder. I even asked the bank if I would be named first and when the letter/cheque books came they were Mr and Ms Man's initial surname. It drove me wild. A pp saying this doesn't happen is so far off.
Why did you want to be named first? Genuine question as it's not something that I would even think about
GreenlandTheMovie · 08/01/2021 10:07

I just send this sort of stuff back, with a note telling them to address it correctly. No one ever argues with me. I did it to ex PIL, I did it to a (parochial) firm of solicitors preparing a will, who were fully aware that I owned most of the assets and would be paying the bill. Funnily enough, they managed to send their invoice addressed to me only. The legislation which enabled women in this country to own heritable property outright has been with us long enough now for them to have updated their practices!

I'm fully aware they're not doing it to be nasty, that's its traditional, etc, but it's just not something I will ever put up with. Even my mother didn't put up with it!

pinbinpin · 08/01/2021 10:10

That actually shocks me. I can only reiterate what I always post on these threads - why are people still getting married and not having civil partnerships instead where this sort of anachronistic, sexist bullshit has been eradicated?

pinbinpin · 08/01/2021 10:17

I have a limited company that I owned solely and ran for 10 years as sole shareholder. I opened a business banking account for the company. For 10 years, statements came addressed to Ms. My Initial My surname.

A couple of years ago, DP started working for my company as an employee. I asked for him to have a business account card, with minimal necessary access to be able to use the business account. Statements then started coming addressed to Mr. His Initial and His surname. Paper statements which can't be turned off on a business account apaprently (everything else is paperless). I complained and they said there was nothing they could do, it's computer generated, alphabetical blah blah etc. After a few months of complaining, they have now tacked "& My Initial My surname" onto the end.

There is apparently no way to restore my name being first, even though it's my company, my account and he does not have full access to the account. Must get around to switching from you this year Santander.

How can people not be bothered by this shit?

Changi · 08/01/2021 11:40

why are people still getting married and not having civil partnerships instead

What's the difference?

VanGoghsDog · 08/01/2021 11:43

When dp and I moved in together I dealt with all the estate agents and solicitors, sorted the mortgage and the bank account etc.

The solicitor got my name wrong three times. Each time in a different way, which was quite a feat given I have a short name and no middie name. One of those incorrect ways was assigning me dp's surname on the deed of trust.

Funny how they never got his name wrong (and he does have a middle name) and never assigned my surname to him! Weirdly one of the names they changed me to was my sister's name, but there's no way they could know that, they just gave me two random names and one with his surname. I'm not sure they ever got it right despite the fact they had my ID and I'd been in and net them (he hadn't) etc.

VinylDetective · 08/01/2021 11:49

How can people not be bothered by this shit?

Because your example as a business owner is completely different to an envelope addressed in a way that offends its recipient. You have a completely legitimate complaint.

I’m not bothered because I’ve worked in enough public facing roles to know exactly how complaints about the address on an envelope are received and how the complainant is regarded.

It does feminism no favours and helps explain why a lot of women in their teens and twenties want nothing to do with it. Getting het up over it is fiddling while Rome burns.

pinbinpin · 08/01/2021 11:52

Fair enough.

As a woman, and as a feminist, I fundamentally disagree with you.

I don't really care how complaints about this sort of thing are viewed in call centres and offices by other people who share your view that it's not damaging or important. There will be many who also disagree there too.

atswim2birds · 08/01/2021 12:13

How can people not be bothered by this shit?

Probably because we have far more important shit to be bothered about, than whose name is on an envelope that goes straight in the recycling. If that's what you want to spend your time and energy on, you have at it.

jeannie46 · 08/01/2021 12:19

I wrote to my MP and he replied to my teenage son.
Presumably because he is male? or maybe because the MP's office were just slap dash and always replied to just anyone at that address?

pinbinpin · 08/01/2021 12:24

Again, fair enough if this sort of thing doesn't bother you. it would bother me:

Marriage certificates include the name of the
father (or step-father) of each of the parties.

Civil partnership certificates include the
names of the father and mother (or stepfather or step-mother) of each of the parties.

A marriage between two people of the
opposite sex can be annulled for the
following reasons (not applicable in Civil Partnerships):

• Non-consummation of the marriage
owing to the wilful refusal of the
respondent (the woman - the man is the Petitioner)
• If at the time of the marriage the
respondent was suffering from a
venereal disease in a communicable
form

AldiAisleofCrap · 08/01/2021 12:26

I know I am being petty over this that tell you all you need to know.

GreenlandTheMovie · 08/01/2021 12:43

@VinylDetective

How can people not be bothered by this shit?

Because your example as a business owner is completely different to an envelope addressed in a way that offends its recipient. You have a completely legitimate complaint.

I’m not bothered because I’ve worked in enough public facing roles to know exactly how complaints about the address on an envelope are received and how the complainant is regarded.

It does feminism no favours and helps explain why a lot of women in their teens and twenties want nothing to do with it. Getting het up over it is fiddling while Rome burns.

Well, apart from the fact that you wouldn't be able to open your own mail because its not addressed to you?

Isn't opening mail addressed to someone else a criminal offence?

Bit dangerous for couples who are separated or divorcing.

atswim2birds · 08/01/2021 13:14

Isn't opening mail addressed to someone else a criminal offence?

No. And if you have a specific problem with your bank, sort it out. It's not illustrative of the case for all.

I am the main account holder for all family accounts, credit cards, bills, house stuff...everything. All letters have always come to me, all calls are made to me, all emails come to me. DH has never been contacted, and on the odd occasion he has contacted anyone, he's usually told they'll have to get my permission to speak to him about it.

Now, I wouldn't say my experience is universal or indicative of anything in particular, though I'd say its very common. So those talking about things incorrectly addressed to their male family members really shouldn't claim that their experience is indicative of anything either.

zigaziga · 08/01/2021 13:19

I think this happened to us - I got the one on the day and the one that followed in the post was addressed to DH.

I would have been more annoyed if they’d sent it to “Mrs Initial DH’s Surname” tbh so glad they just sent to him. The vast, vast majority of men don’t change their names whereas with a woman you wouldn’t want to presume what her name is.

SimonJT · 08/01/2021 15:57

@pinbinpin

That actually shocks me. I can only reiterate what I always post on these threads - why are people still getting married and not having civil partnerships instead where this sort of anachronistic, sexist bullshit has been eradicated?
Because I want my partner to be my husband, not my civil partner.
peak2021 · 08/01/2021 16:01

Yes it should. Whether it is marriage between a woman and a man, two women or two men.

I also think the law should not presume that both people will have the same surname after marriage and that some will choose to keep their surname pre-marriage.

SpudsandGravy · 08/01/2021 17:32

I don't think you're being petty at all. It's completely inappropriate in this day and age. I'm glad you contacted them.

SpudsandGravy · 08/01/2021 17:34

@Maray1967

Interesting. I joined the national trust a few years ago- couples membership. Put my name first and then husbands. Put my email address first but emails were sent to DH email address. Mail was addressed to DH. Raised it a year or so back and complained. Person on phone apologised. Emails now come to my address starting ‘Dear DH first name...’ I will make a renewed effort when things are less stressed.
😡 If I were you I'd leave, and tell them why. Copy in head office