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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think a marriage certificate should be addressed to both people?

155 replies

wealllikespuppies · 07/01/2021 10:29

some background, me and my husband got married last week (just before the lockdown).

received our wedding certificate in the post the other day. we live together, but only one name was written on the envelope - my husband's.

i've emailed them querying this, stating that it seems sexist and that a marriage by definition is a union between two people, so surely it seems a bit silly only to address it to one person? i know it's not a big deal in the grand scheme of things, but it also is a big deal in that it's important, and also, the ceremony (the cheapest one available) cost over £150, so i'd expect the small details to be paid attention to.

I've had a reply this morning, with the ultimate fake apology 'I'm sorry you feel that way'. along with a statement that 'there is not enough space on the envelope to include the names of all parties' and that 'we can't assume one person will take the surname of their husband/wife' (which is contradictory with the fact my husband's surname was used on the envelope, so an assumption has clearly been made).

I've replied stating I feel this isn't really an acceptable excuse, and I've encouraged them to consider my feedback in future correspondence with clients.

I know I am being petty over this but would anyone else find it super annoying and demoralising? I'm going to just let it go but it really has peed me off this morning (and on my day off work as well :'( )

OP posts:
FallingStar · 07/01/2021 11:12
Biscuit
StCharlotte · 07/01/2021 11:13

Those aren't the only two option though.

Exactly my point. There are many ways for them to get it wrong!

atswim2birds · 07/01/2021 11:14

I know I am being petty over this but would anyone else find it super annoying and demoralising?

No, why would it be demoralising? I wouldn't give it a second thought.

Plus you're assuming there is some kind of sexist reason, its more likely that whoever did the envelope couldn't be arsed to write both names and just picked one at random. The next ten could have gone out to women, for all you know.

MarkRuffaloCrumble · 07/01/2021 11:16

Why can't they send to to Mr Groom name and Ms Bride name? They have both the names there on the certificate, it's not hard is it?

True but then some bridezilla would complain that she hasn’t gone to all the trouble and expense of getting married to still be addressed in her maiden name!

To be honest there isn’t a ‘one size fits all’ solution. Maybe they should have asked at the time who to address it to when they send it to you? Or if as other PPs have suggested, it’s legally the woman’s property, the default should be to send it to you in your maiden name. Wouldn’t help those who’ve changed their names but wouldn’t piss off those who haven’t!

MarkRuffaloCrumble · 07/01/2021 11:17

Plus you're assuming there is some kind of sexist reason, its more likely that whoever did the envelope couldn't be arsed to write both names and just picked one at random. The next ten could have gone out to women, for all you know

I think we all know that’s not true. Man is the default. Examples on here that show it happening even when you try to correct it.

Affor · 07/01/2021 11:17

@StCharlotte

Those aren't the only two option though.

Exactly my point. There are many ways for them to get it wrong!

Yes but some of those ways are wrong based on preference.

This is wrong both legally - her property and morally -it's sexist!

Fuss · 07/01/2021 11:27

@Maray1967

Interesting. I joined the national trust a few years ago- couples membership. Put my name first and then husbands. Put my email address first but emails were sent to DH email address. Mail was addressed to DH. Raised it a year or so back and complained. Person on phone apologised. Emails now come to my address starting ‘Dear DH first name...’ I will make a renewed effort when things are less stressed.
I had similar with a wildlife charity, I could have a joint membership but due to a work conflict DH couldn't really associate, so I joined with DS. Every email, letter and magazine came to Mr DS. I also raised it and eventually they did manage to get it right.
movingonup20 · 07/01/2021 11:27

Odd, I've never experienced this, the bank puts me first as I was the account holder before adding him (soon to be removed when I get round to it as getting divorced), ditto the council at my new address with my dp. The only ones who were sticklers for man first were DD's private school, and I moaned at them!

atswim2birds · 07/01/2021 11:28

I think we all know that’s not true. Man is the default. Examples on here that show it happening even when you try to correct it

I think we all know thats your assumption and nothing more.

diavlo · 07/01/2021 11:30

Are you shitting me?? If this isn’t a joke, please could I suggest that you get a bloody grip!!

VinylDetective · 07/01/2021 11:32

I don’t understand this. At both my weddings I was handed the marriage certificate because apparently it’s legally the wife’s property. Why didn’t you get it on the day?

Finally2021 · 07/01/2021 11:32

@StCharlotte

I'd love to know the history behind that.

'Marriage lines' or marriage certificates were issued from the mid 18th century onwards. Traditionally it was given to the bride because she needed to be able to prove her martial status. She may have no other way of proving she was married which she might need to either avoid gossip and speculation or to pursue support from her husband if he tried to abandon her. This was especially important if she moved away from the parish they married in. Being able to prove marriage was generally socially and legally more important for women than men.

contrmary · 07/01/2021 11:34

YABU. Marriage means the two of you are a single unit, therefore it doesn't matter which of you something is addressed to, it means both of you equally.

MsHedgehog · 07/01/2021 11:34

That would annoy me. I remember when we were on holiday in Australia a couple of years ago (those were the days!) and we booked a really nice high end hotel in Sydney. I made the booking, and I paid for it too, and the first time they took DH's name was when we checked in.

We got to the room, and the welcome letter and TV were both addressed to DH. Room service bills were all addressed to DH, and the check out invoiced addressed to DH.

I mentioned it when we checked out but obvs it was the usual apology and that was it.

Pyewhacket · 07/01/2021 11:37

Grow up.

MaskingForIt · 07/01/2021 11:37

@RaspberryCoulis

They'll just have taken the first name at the top of the certificate, which is the groom.

Or are you asking that the entire certificate is redesigned?

I’m very pro-marriage for the protection it offers women, but yes, the form does need to be resigned as it is sexist and outdated. There is no reason for it to still only list each person's father’s occupation. If it matters, both parents occupations matter. If it doesn’t, don’t have either.
MadameMonk · 07/01/2021 11:38

It is clearly institutionalised sexism.

That doesn’t make it ‘National Headlines’, but it does make it worthy of pointing out, and pushing until it’s rectified in line with our culture’s modern expectations.

Anyone who notices it, points it out, and tries to effect change (on MN or elsewhere) is to be commended. Not ridiculed or minimised.

Good on you, OP. And congrats twice over!

notanothertakeaway · 07/01/2021 11:38

I think OP was right to raise this. It's a good example of casual sexism

When clearing my aunt's house, I came across generic correspondence from NHS from c1970/80's, saying "if you have any queries, contact your doctor and ask him to explain". At some point, someone probably suggested changing it to "ask the doctor to explain" to acknowledge the Dr could be female. I bet lots of people moaned it was political correctness, but it's a shift in attitude

MaskingForIt · 07/01/2021 11:39

@Pyewhacket

Grow up.
Growing up involves opening one’s eyes to inequality and taking steps to address it. It takes being a grown up to question the status quo and to not just sheeple along with it.

Sure, there are bigger problems, but I am glad that people are also willing to tackle the small problems too.

FitterHappierMoreProductive · 07/01/2021 11:40

Look at all the women who are prepared to be disenfranchised from their own lives - it might be a small thing, but it’s one of the many many small things that add up to women still being treated like second class citizens...

HedgieHog · 07/01/2021 11:41

I can’t this is worth getting round up about Hmm

MaskingForIt · 07/01/2021 11:41

At some point, someone probably suggested changing it to "ask the doctor to explain" to acknowledge the Dr could be female. I bet lots of people moaned it was political correctness, but it's a shift in attitude

Women?! Being doctors?! How very dare they! They should get back in the kitchen where they belong.

Cautionsharpblade · 07/01/2021 11:45

My marriage certificate had a box to tick yes/no for ‘can the bride read and write?’ This was in 2001

BeeDavis · 07/01/2021 11:49

@femfemlicious

Lawd...i wish i had as few worries as you doGrin. Imagine getting so worked up over this.
Couldn’t agree more.
Pukkatea · 07/01/2021 11:49

This IS important. The majority of sexism isn't because men hate women and consciously try to make their lives worse. Most of it is ingrained into reasonable people by a world that defaults to male. If you don't address the latter, nothing will ever change for women. Suggesting other women should grow up for challenging everyday sexism makes you part of the problem.