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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Coup on Capitol Hill (Trump#117)

999 replies

ZZTopGuitarSolo · 06/01/2021 20:46

The ongoing Trump saga.

Continuing from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4110252-May-Hope-and-History-Rhyme-Trump-116

OP posts:
Thread gallery
22
Jaichangecentfoisdenom · 07/01/2021 10:52

"Though how he can escape arrest after this catastrophic debacle, I don’t know."
@GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER - Even after yesterday, apparently they can't get enough Republican supporters to invoke the 25th Amendment; impeachment would take too long; he's not about to resign and it seems nobody has grounds to imprison him immediately (I'd have thought sedition and treason were both right up there ready to go, but I'm clearly wrong).

Roussette · 07/01/2021 10:53

New thread when we are ready... not many posts to go on here

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4128420-Capitol-Hill-and-the-next-2-weeks-Trump-118?watched=1

DGRossetti · 07/01/2021 10:54

@Jaichangecentfoisdenom

Hang on *@DGRossetti* - I thought Trump's and Biden's names were both on the ballot papers in a presidential election?
Yes, but you don't vote for them.

You vote for an elector who is pledged to vote for them.

And they may - or may not - pledge their votes to your candidate.

There is a reason for it ... the electoral college is supposed to act as a buffer to populism.

terrywynne · 07/01/2021 10:55

@Wheresyourclapham

“I didn't understand that Biden doesn't have any power yet”

Ignorant people should not be allowed to vote or run for office. Maybe it should be a legal requirement for everyone to take a basic test beforehand. Let’s just continue to allow them to spout shite on the internet.

Or we could accept that

A) people not in the USA may not fully understand how their politics work because unless you study politics you tend not to learn about other countries in detail (until it appears on the news)

B) invest money in education and work to install a respect for education and knowledge to counteract this 'we don't need expert's attitude that emerged recently

C) don't berate people for stupidity because it will make them less likely to engage in debate/ask question.

Democratic processes are undoubtedly flawed (first past the post voting has many issues, as do many other aspects of political systems in different countries) but restrixting voting to those who think 'correctly' and dismissing others as stupid is a terrible idea. We should be adressing social inequality, educational disparity, lack of social movement, engaging with those who feel excluded etc. But maybe not the day after a mob storms the Capitol! Things need to calm down a bit first...

Mypathtriedtokillme · 07/01/2021 10:57

@EvilPea

How on Earth they will unify that country I don’t know. They are so angry and believe the votes were stolen.
They were angry before this. They don’t feel they got all that they think they deserve. Women should know their place and black peoples should be continued to be ground under their heels. Trump has focused and pointed their anger for his own financial and narcissistic needs but white supremacy has been simmering and out blatantly in USA for generations. This is nothing new.
cbt944 · 07/01/2021 10:59

On and on they carry on feeding the division.
They continue to feed the flames and cement their own views, believing they are 'right' and only they know the answers and everyone else is a 'white supremacist' if they don't agree, or only partially agree. They long for 'ignore' buttons, so they can live peacefully in an echo chamber.

Are you this pompous in real life? How's that workin' for ya?! Personally, I long for ignore buttons so I can save my blood pressure, and not have to get needlessly drawn into interchanges with pretentious prats who believe they are enlightened ones.

mathanxiety · 07/01/2021 10:59

They continue to feed the flames and cement their own views, believing they are 'right' and only they know the answers and everyone else is a 'white supremacist' if they don't agree, or only partially agree.

That's quite an insult you have just delivered.

The clue that you are dealing with a white supremacist is the fact that he or she broke into the US Capitol yesterday, motivated by the conviction that America needs to be 'saved'. 'Saved' is shorthand for 'saved from falling into the wrong hands'.

We've seen white supremacists aplenty over the course of last year - anti-maskers on the steps of the Michigan State Capitol, an armed white teenager and his companions shooting people dead in Kenosha, Wisconsin, a group of Minneapolis police officers, one of them with his knee on the neck of a black citizen, the others looking on nonchalantly. We know there are other clues that someone is a white supremacist, or belongs to a group or organisation inclined in that direction - the entire Minneapolis police department, for example, the subject of a Department of Justice review because of numerous problems in policing in Minneapolis over many, many years.

RedToothBrush · 07/01/2021 11:04

The divisive thing here is that one group believes in democracy (which does include many republicans) and one group does not (exclusively trump supporters).

RedToothBrush · 07/01/2021 11:05

@RedToothBrush

The divisive thing here is that one group believes in democracy (which does include many republicans) and one group does not (exclusively trump supporters).
And this is quite problematic in a democracy...
TheTangoTerrorIsTerrifying · 07/01/2021 11:06

The security and police presence was so totally inept, that goes without saying. The police inside were overwhelmed within minutes.
Just as an aside, I’m struggling to fathom how easily the windows were broken. It looked liked single pane glass. Confused

Roussette · 07/01/2021 11:08

I agree Tango

Everything came across as flimsy. Break the windows, scale the walls, walk in the door.

Just to put it again... new thread... (excuse the random poll that is on it, I've requested MN remove it)

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4128420-Capitol-Hill-and-the-next-2-weeks-Trump-118?watched=1

Icanseegreenshoots · 07/01/2021 11:15

mathanxiety Just out of interest, has it not occurred to you that they want to save the country from socialism, wokeness or some other reason, why or why does everyone automatically assume it is to do with race? There are many many many reasons why Republicans do not agree with the Democrats.

I don't personally know what they wish to save their country from, I am not sure you do either - but I would not be willing to label anyone a racist that was not able to confirm their meaning.
I can see they have a race issue in the US, whether every single thing comes down to that, no I don't believe that at all. There are multiple issues, and racism is just one of them.

PerkingFaintly · 07/01/2021 11:19

Text of Biden's speech last night:

At this hour, our democracy is under an unprecedented assault.

An assault on the Capitol itself.

An assault on the people’s representatives, on the police officers sworn to protect them, and the public servants who work at the heart of our Republic.

An assault on the rule of law.

An assault on the most sacred of American undertakings: The doing of the people’s business.

Let me be very clear: The scenes of chaos at the Capitol do not reflect the true America.

This is not who we are.

What we are seeing is a small number of extremists dedicated to lawlessness.

This is not dissent. It is disorder. It is chaos. It borders on sedition.

And it must end. Now.

I call on this mob to pull back and allow the work of democracy to go forward.

You’ve heard me say this in different contexts: the words of a President matter, no matter how good or bad that president is.

At their best, the words of a president can inspire.

At their worst, they can incite.

Therefore, I call on President Trump to go on national television, now, to fulfill his oath and defend the Constitution and demand an end to this siege.

To storm the Capitol, to smash windows, to occupy offices, and to threaten the safety of duly elected officials is not protest.

It is insurrection.

The world is watching — and like so many other Americans, I am shocked and saddened that our nation, so long a beacon of light, hope, and democracy has come to such a dark moment.

Through war and strife, America has endured much. And we will endure here and prevail now.

The work of the moment and the work of the next four years must be the restoration of democracy and the recovery of respect for the rule of law, and the renewal of a politics that’s about solving problems — not stoking the flames of hate and chaos.

America is about honor, decency, respect, and tolerance.

That’s who we are. That’s who we’ve always been.

The certification of the Electoral College votes is supposed to be a sacred ritual in which we affirm the majesty of American democracy.

Today is a reminder, a painful one, that democracy is fragile.

To preserve it requires people of good will, leaders with the courage to stand up, who are devoted not to pursuit of power and personal interest at any cost, but to the common good.

Think of what our children who are watching are thinking. Think of what the rest of the world is looking at.

For nearly two and a half centuries, we the people, in search of a more perfect union, have kept our eyes on that common good.

America is so much better than what we’re seeing today.

Watching the scenes from the Capitol, I was reminded of Abraham Lincoln’s words in an annual message to the Congress whose work has today been interrupted by chaos.

President Lincoln said: “We shall nobly save or meanly lose, the last best hope of earth….The way is plain, peaceful, generous, just — a way which, if followed, the world will forever applaud, and God must forever bless.”

Our way is plain here, too. It is the way of democracy, of lawfulness, and of honor — respect for each other, and for our nation.

Notwithstanding what we’ve seen today, I remain optimistic about the incredible opportunities.

There has never been anything we can’t do when we do it together. And this God-awful display today is bringing home to every Republican, Democrat, and Independent in the nation that we must step up.

This is the United States of America.

President Trump, step up.

May God Bless America.

May God protect our troops and everyone at the Capitol who is trying to protect the order.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/01/06/insurrection-joe-bidens-speech-full-us-capitol-stormed/

Icanseegreenshoots · 07/01/2021 11:21

cbt Rather than calling for 'ignore' buttons that will shut down reasonable debate, why not simply come off the thread and lower your blood pressure?! Confused
Or hide the thread if you can not bear to come off the forum? Why do we have to close down debate because you are not able to control yourself or your extreme emotions and reactions?

You are in charge of you as an adult, and if you are suffering physical health issues due to an inability to cope with other viewpoints, and you are developing such serious problems related to anger if you are citing your blood pressure, then maybe you should seek professional help as well as learning how to press the hide threads facility.

Mypathtriedtokillme · 07/01/2021 11:23

@Icanseegreenshoots

mathanxiety Just out of interest, has it not occurred to you that they want to save the country from socialism, wokeness or some other reason, why or why does everyone automatically assume it is to do with race? There are many many many reasons why Republicans do not agree with the Democrats.

I don't personally know what they wish to save their country from, I am not sure you do either - but I would not be willing to label anyone a racist that was not able to confirm their meaning.
I can see they have a race issue in the US, whether every single thing comes down to that, no I don't believe that at all. There are multiple issues, and racism is just one of them.

Socialism: Healthcare which doesn’t bankrupt you is such a bad thing. Most of the “Trump” states already receive more from the federal govt than they put in via taxes. That’s socialism at its base
GoLightlyontheEarth · 07/01/2021 11:24

I think there’s a fear of mass civil unrest ifTrump were to be removed. I agree that this is what needs to happen.

PerkingFaintly · 07/01/2021 11:25

And here's Biden's rather longer acceptance speech, when he was elected president:

abcnews.go.com/Politics/read-full-text-joe-bidens-speech-historic-election/story?id=74084462

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 07/01/2021 11:26

I don’t think the Capitol buildings were flimsy. They were how government buildings should be. In the U.K. we are used to Parliament and Downing St being fortified against bomb attacks, this is not a good thing.

Icanseegreenshoots · 07/01/2021 11:26

mypath Socialism is much more than healthcare. Particularly in the US.

PerkingFaintly · 07/01/2021 11:29

From that acceptance speech:

Folks, I’m a proud Democrat. But I will govern as an American president.

I'll work as hard for those who didn't vote for me as those who did. Let this grim era of demonization in America begin to end here and now. The refusal of Democrats and Republicans to cooperate with one another, it’s not some mysterious force beyond our control.

It's a decision. A choice we make. And if we can decide not to cooperate, then we can decide to cooperate. And I believe that this is part of the mandate given to us from the American people.

They want us to cooperate in their interest, and that's the choice I'll make. And I'll call on Congress, Democrats and Republicans alike, to make that choice with me.

cbt944 · 07/01/2021 11:32

@Icanseegreenshoots

cbt Rather than calling for 'ignore' buttons that will shut down reasonable debate, why not simply come off the thread and lower your blood pressure?! Confused Or hide the thread if you can not bear to come off the forum? Why do we have to close down debate because you are not able to control yourself or your extreme emotions and reactions?

You are in charge of you as an adult, and if you are suffering physical health issues due to an inability to cope with other viewpoints, and you are developing such serious problems related to anger if you are citing your blood pressure, then maybe you should seek professional help as well as learning how to press the hide threads facility.

I am on this thread as I am deeply disturbed by the events I have witnessed over this last day, and I shall keep reading and posting.

I am not wishing to shut down "reasonable debate".

Why don't you, however, follow your own advice and remember that "you are in charge of you as an adult" and moderate the patronising here, and perhaps you might extend that notion to the domestic terrorists/chumps manipulated by Trump, and recognize that they were in charge of their own behaviour, also.

Mysteryamazonian · 07/01/2021 11:32

Argh socialism

Runs and hides

Grin
Icanseegreenshoots · 07/01/2021 11:34

On the upside last night may well serve as a wake up call to Republicans, and indeed may very well end Trumps' chances of being forward for the next election. For every die hard Trump supporter there will be many more reasonable voters that will not stand for such violence against their country. They are patriots at heart.

In the end, Biden will take over in two weeks. Peace and order will be restored, and this will go down in history as the most ill tempered exit of any US president. However it might also end forever future Trump presidency , but not the movement. Efforts now need to be made to engage with those that are disenfranchised if there is to be any last peace in the USA.

PerkingFaintly · 07/01/2021 11:36

Similarly, I was watching CNN last night. They had a variety of Republicans on, and read statements from senior Republicans, all of whom (that I saw) condemning the behaviour of the insurrectionists.

CNN has been making it very clear – very clear – that the insurrectionists are not all Republicans.

Icanseegreenshoots · 07/01/2021 11:36

**lasting peace (on phone and in a rush!)

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