Coup on Capitol Hill (Trump#117)

[ZZTopGuitarSolo]

The ongoing Trump saga.

Continuing from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4110252-May-Hope-and-History-Rhyme-Trump-116

'We hear the cry of:

Terrorists
Idiots
Racists
Lock Trump up in a prison camps'

To be fair greenshoots we are at less than 24 hours since this invasion into the Capitol building. Rhetoric and feelings are high understandably.

I know people who like BoJo because 'he makes me laugh'. Is that all that's needed to be the most important person in a country? If so, why aren't one of the Chuckle Brothers PM here confused

Boris Johnson was Mayor of London and re-elected because people rated him.

The mass entrenchment is scary not the actions of a few weirdos breaking into capitol hill.

Mumsnetters thinking terrorists are terrorists are more frightening than terrorists?

Gosh.

@Icanseegreenshoots

math You have a low opinion of the US. Black and white children have been going to school together for over forty years, but don't let the facts hold you back. Segregation should never ever have happened in the first place, but since the 1960s and 1970s this has been phased out.

I think we need to stick with the facts. The US the last time I checked is in fact a democracy to say otherwise is false.

I live in the US, thanks. I have lived in a city in the US that is almost as segregated now as it was in 1960, and I am here to tell you that I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of places that are truly desegregated and experiencing no resegregation, no disparity in educational outcomes between black and white children, no shameful incidents involving policing.

I despair of the country my children live in. Two of them are in DC, hoping they have supplies of enough food and toilet paper to get them through the next two weeks. One of them has a roommate who is biracial, who ventured out a few weekends ago when MAGA supporters were marching in DC and came home in tears after the verbal abuse she suffered at the hands of those fascists.

And the US is not a democracy, or any of the rest you say it is. It is a Republic. Hence the Electoral College.
You can look that up if you don't believe me.

@Mittens030869

Trump doesn't wield all that much power, though. Otherwise the courts wouldn't have thrown out all his legal challenges and state politicians and election officials wouldn't have withstood his efforts to pressure them into changing their electoral college results.

There are two ways of looking at this, of course ... downwards, it seems the US constitution is still holding up. Which shows that the Founding Fathers weren't a bunch of peace'n'love hippies (although George Washington did farm cannabis). They were extremely learned men who read history and tried to learn from it. Hence the word "tyrant" and "tyranny" appearing so much in the preamble.

Given it's a tough task to change the constitution, I'd be curious as to what changes - if any - people think need to be made ?

As a starter for 10, I'd note that the Constitution is only as useful as the minds that interpret it. It managed - with no strain whatsoever - to exclude blacks from the "all men are born equal" declaration of the Bill of Rights. And it still insists that slowly killing someone who may be mentally ill is not "cruel and unusual".

@Mittens030869

Trump doesn't wield all that much power, though. Otherwise the courts wouldn't have thrown out all his legal challenges and state politicians and election officials wouldn't have withstood his efforts to pressure them into changing their electoral college results.

The power he has is to rile up that bunch of arseholes. The glee on their faces as they rampaged through Capitol Building was something else. Half of em have been waiting for an occasion to get the camouflage and body armour out for an airing. What a useless waste of human life they are.

“We’re going to March down Pennsylvania Avenue” he said. That lot did it just as he wanted and he slithered off back to his bunker to watch the violence and vandalism unfold. Unbefuckinglievable.

“I didn't understand that Biden doesn't have any power yet”

Ignorant people should not be allowed to vote or run for office. Maybe it should be a legal requirement for everyone to take a basic test beforehand. Let’s just continue to allow them to spout shite on the internet.

This is the woman who died. She was clearly told to stand down by officers but jumped through a broken window.

www.businessinsider.com/ashli-babbitt-tweeted-qanon-and-trump-conspiracies-before-capitol-death-2021-1

The shrill woke brigade forcing safe spaces and closing down conversation because it does not sit well with x,y and z will lead us into the darkest place yet

Having said what I said above, I'm sick to death of 'woke' being used as an insult.

According to the Oxford English Dictionary "woke" is defined as: "Originally: well-informed, up-to-date. Now chiefly: alert to racial or social discrimination and injustice."

So please ... this thread is not to bandy about 'woke' as an insult I don't think

@Roussette

This tweet sums it up given Trump has now talked about a peaceful transition of power

'Its taken a riot, 4 deaths, an unexploded IED but Trump seemingly has accepted he lost'

Unfortunately, I'm more inclined to believe this: Titus @TitusNation · 1h A con man will always tell you what you want to hear when he's up against the wall. He tells you that for time, so he can figure out the next move. His statement is a total denial. He still thinks he won. He will burn it down, @SpeakerPelosi 25th amendment, now

Boris Johnson was Mayor of London and re-elected because people rated him

And look what we've ended up with. Will stop there as do not want to derail the thread

'the shrill woke brigade' ah right you are

@TheTangoTerrorIsTerrifying - yes, we seem to have forgotten his campaign rally remark from 2016: "I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters". It wasn't a joke. He has no sense of humour.

And the US is not a democracy, or any of the rest you say it is. It is a Republic. Hence the Electoral College. []You can look that up if you don't believe me.

Weirdly you have this rarely challenged notion in UK politics that you "vote for Boris" ... well unless you live in Uxbridge you most certainly do not vote for Boris. Nor ever could.

But yes, any American who claims they "voted for Biden" or "voted for Trump" is being inaccurate to say the least. And it would be worrying if they didn't realise that. But I don't feel comfortable asserting that from the UK, where peoples political knowledge is equally pisspoor.

@Icanseegreenshoots

The entrenched views on here - even on this thread - seem to not even realise they are part of the problem.

We hear the cry of:

Terrorists
Idiots
Racists
Lock Trump up in a prison camps

On and on they carry on feeding the division.
They continue to feed the flames and cement their own views, believing they are 'right' and only they know the answers and everyone else is a 'white supremacist' if they don't agree, or only partially agree. They long for 'ignore' buttons, so they can live peacefully in an echo chamber.

It is actually more worrying to me that so many have lost the capacity to even debate unsavoury viewpoints of others, much less concede there may be some valid points in all world views. Even those that belong to IS have some views that are interesting and valid.

The mass entrenchment is scary not the actions of a few weirdos breaking into capitol hill.
We should be very scared that this is the beginning of the end of true democracy - an ability to listen and be listened to - to choose to blend many views/religions and live peacefully respecting others - but not necessarily agreeing with them. The shrill woke brigade forcing safe spaces and closing down conversation because it does not sit well with x,y and z will lead us into the darkest place yet.

Bollocks.

Just bollocks

I do think that the democratic party has engaged in a lot of divisive stuff but no matter how you want to dress it up storming a state building to stop an election result being ratified is not normal.

It is an act of politically motived violence to stop normal functioning of a democracy.

What else do you want to call it?

Going for a picnic?

It matches the exact description of terrorism as defined by the UN.

Unless you define it as terrorism you risk not sufficiently protecting Congressmen and women and their families because the argument goes 'well what do they need protection for' because you haven't identified the risk accurately as politically motivated with them marked as targets.

They weren't there to protest. For many the intent was to do far more than that.

Own it.

Jai
That was just one warning sign, yes. There were plenty more. But his enablers just hitched their wagon to him for purely selfish reasons. And continue to do so to harness his base for their future

Hang on @DGRossetti - I thought Trump's and Biden's names were both on the ballot papers in a presidential election?

@Wheresyourclapham

“I didn't understand that Biden doesn't have any power yet”

Ignorant people should not be allowed to vote or run for office. Maybe it should be a legal requirement for everyone to take a basic test beforehand. Let’s just continue to allow them to spout shite on the internet.

If you think things are bad now, you wait till the "educated" rule the "illiterate".

We tried that in the middle ages. Didn't end too well. Particularly in France.

Interesting...

A Senator who was in the Chamber when they stormed in and was up on the balcony with a gas mask on is saying that they knew this was going to happen weeks ago. They'd been warned. They were told to use the concealed tunnels to get around the Capitol building because of this.
This is obviously true so why in god's name could they storm the steps and in?

It's only luck that the pipe bombs didn't go off.

Watching American news. Trump refused to send in the national guard.

He hasn’t accepted that he didn’t win the election, though. It was still ‘stolen’.

IMO he’s just thinking it highly expedient to ‘appear’ to have recovered some of his senses, in order to mitigate any action against him for inciting violence and insurrection, after Biden is installed and he’s no longer protected by the presidency.

Though how he can escape arrest after this catastrophic debacle, I don’t know.

When you resort to terms like "shrill" and "screeching" to describe those you disagree with, you really have lost the argument. Let alone "brigade".

How on Earth they will unify that country I don’t know. They are so angry and believe the votes were stolen.

@Jaichangecentfoisdenom

Hang on *@DGRossetti* - I thought Trump's and Biden's names were both on the ballot papers in a presidential election?

That’s true, but those votes don’t determine the presidential election, the votes of the Electoral College do. Hence Hillary Clinton winning the popular vote but losing the election. If I’m wrong (and I might easily be) there are real Americans on here who may be able to explain better.