How does the Irish middle class compare to ours

[Norfolker]

My sister in law is from the Republic & she says the class system in Ireland is there but less obvious than ours.. Not as many private schools but more subtle markers.
She also thinks their state education system is far superior so private schooling is unnecessary. Any Irish on here want to elaborate? I found it interesting.
YABU there is no difference between UK & ROI. Exact same class system no difference in markets.
YANBU different traits contribute to the Irish middle class system

My mum said in her convent that there were some orphans and they were treated so badly. She still feels shame she didn’t say anything but how could she have protected them when she was only a child

Irish history rivals only the worst in the world in how it treated its children, teenagers and lower classes. I love being irish but I'm ashamed of our history in that respect

That was the blooming Catholic Church stayathomer. Thankfully, we're out from under their thumbs now too! It was utterly appalling and something every Irish person should be ashamed of. I certainly am. It's a horrible part of our history. Disgraceful and shameful. But look, it's done now and we can try to do better in future.

What does she use her IL's address for?! Google maps means it's probably closer to Ballymun than Finglas iykwim, that was the case when I lived in Drumcondra, it was closer to Phibsboro..

Have any of you seen a film about a little mixed race girl who was in an orphanage run by the nuns? It is NOT an easy watch. They used to scald her, beat the shit out of her, leave her standing in the cold all night long. Absolutely heartbreaking. She's now a nurse in England. I can't remember the name of the film and have tried to find it to watch again (horrible though it is) as I feel it's my duty to be reminded often of the horrors of the 'religious'. evil cunts

Apart from achieving independence from Britain, our greatest achievement has been opening our eyes to the absolute scandalous, abhorrent cruel ways of the Catholic 'church'.

@HeyGirlHeyBoy

What does she use her IL's address for?! Google maps means it's probably closer to Ballymun than Finglas iykwim, that was the case when I lived in Drumcondra, it was closer to Phibsboro..

Surely you must know the negative reputation Ballymun has?

I remember coverage of the towers in Ballymun constantly on the news - that was one failure of city planning! It was rife with heroin in the 80's.

HeyGirlHeyBoy
Schools offered Gaeltacht? As in, paid for it?? Thta was pretty amazing. I went but yes myself and one other that summer, not widespread. Many wouldn't have gone near it tbf

If I remember correctly we just had to pay the train fare and a small contribution to the Bean an tí. I'm not sure how the rest was funded But you always got the chance to go, at the end of 2nd year and 5th year.

It wasn't a popular thing. I'd say out of 100 students in each year.. about 12-15 would choose to go.

To anyone reading who is not Irish, they constructed I think 4 tower blocks of flats in Ballymum (council), but put absolutely no facilities in such as schools/parks etc. It was deemed to be the way of the future initially, but it became a complete ghetto, riddled with drugs and crime. The 80's was an awful time for heroin in Ireland. Tony Felloni was responsible for a lot of the heroin, even getting his own daughter hooked on heroin. I, spoke to him a few times in my job after his release from prison as my boss was his solicitor lol. He became good friends with Gilligan in prison too (also our client!).

@NothingICanDo

HeyGirlHeyBoy Schools offered Gaeltacht? As in, paid for it?? Thta was pretty amazing. I went but yes myself and one other that summer, not widespread. Many wouldn't have gone near it tbf

If I remember correctly we just had to pay the train fare and a small contribution to the Bean an tí. I'm not sure how the rest was funded But you always got the chance to go, at the end of 2nd year and 5th year.

It wasn't a popular thing. I'd say out of 100 students in each year.. about 12-15 would choose to go.

It's about 1200 for the 3 weeks nowadays. Only the rich could afford it back in my day. There was no funding unless your parents were willing to cough up (which mine were not).

That's insane! It would have been around 2002 when I went. We definitely didn't pay even a fraction of that.

@NothingICanDo

That's insane! It would have been around 2002 when I went. We definitely didn't pay even a fraction of that.

Did you get an A in Irish at least?

My parents paid for my older brother to go to a thing called Eurolanguages - for French for 3 weeks. Similar to Gaeltacht - just spoke French all the time.
For me they paid for nada
They paid for the Gaeltacht for my younger sister.

Not remotely bitter about that

Yes of course hat, but I'm wondering in what context she uses her IL's address for?

That was fantastic you were offered that. I went to Coláiste Pheig Sayers and later Coláiste na bhFiann, an-strict!

Another thing is that education is greatly valued here, not by all maybe, but across the social classes, by and large. My privileges above, and I also spent time in France, were because of sacrifices I now see my parents made. They didn't go on holidays themselves for example. Education and opportunity for us was first, always.

Re entry to the Royal College of Surgeons, entry isn't particularly harder than other unis for medicine. It's fee paying though, so to get in, you need rich parents plus the points OR to get a bursary (extremely difficult).

@Hatstrategicallydipped

That was the blooming Catholic Church stayathomer. Thankfully, we're out from under their thumbs now too! It was utterly appalling and something every Irish person should be ashamed of. I certainly am. It's a horrible part of our history. Disgraceful and shameful. But look, it's done now and we can try to do better in future.

Have you seen the conditions in direct provision? The nuns didn’t land in Ireland from the moon - they were Irish as were their staff and most of the poor women and children were forced to attend their institutions. We are no better now.

Did you get an A in Irish at least? grin

I got a B...but in higher level so we'll pretend it was an A

The young lady who got a bursary, would have done all her exams in English, having only moved to Ireland 3 years earlier. She studied for her Junior Cert in Direct Provision (asylum seeker accommodation) in one room that she shared with her mother. That takes some determination, discipline and intelligence. She deserved her bursary and I'm delighted that she got one. Perhaps the parents have good jobs in Ireland, I don't know. But she is an example of the good that Ireland can do, when we put our ass into it.

Have you seen the conditions in direct provision? The nuns didn’t land in Ireland from the moon - they were Irish as were their staff and most of the poor women and children were forced to attend their institutions. We are no better now.

I haven't actually. I can only imagine what it's like. I myself have lived in a women's refuge for a period and I know how shit that is (not in Ireland though) - in England.

Yes sadly I think it's little to do with Catholicism (I'm not even Catholic myself) but it's human nature, an abuse of power to do with shame based individuals projecting their own unresolved shame on to somebody more vulnerable, behind the cover of an institution. Or at least it was.

Not sure what's going on now with direct provision. I am sticking my head in the sand I feel.

@Hatstrategicallydipped did you represent Tony Felloni? That must have felt a bit hair-raising. His own daughter ended up on heroin, god, karma's kiss. Poor woman.

@NothingICanDo

Did you get an A in Irish at least? grin

I got a B...but in higher level so we'll pretend it was an A

So did I. My parent's 'logic' meanness was explained by the fact that I was good at Irish anyway

I find this thread so interesting as my husband of 20 years is From Dublin. He couldn't get over the fuss about schools over here to start with.
What I have noticed though which gets on my wick is how many of the Irish friends and family always insinuate how "posh" people are in England, ALWAYS making references and jokes to it. The inverse snobbery is so ironic, imagine if people spoke like that the other way round, looking down their noses at people for having humble lives.... (and they're all well educated professionals themselves)

@Danu2021

Yes sadly I think it's little to do with Catholicism (I'm not even Catholic myself) but it's human nature, an abuse of power to do with shame based individuals projecting their own unresolved shame on to somebody more vulnerable, behind the cover of an institution. Or at least it was.

Not sure what's going on now with direct provision. I am sticking my head in the sand I feel.

@Hatstrategicallydipped did you represent Tony Felloni? That must have felt a bit hair-raising. His own daughter ended up on heroin, god, karma's kiss. Poor woman.

I didn't. I was just the secretary. I did read the files though - no criminal cases at the time - something to do with his youngest child if I recall correctly - I think she was in foster care and he was trying to get access to her or something. I remember getting a phonecall from him one day asking us to put a bet on for Gilligan. It was on 3 soccer matches - an accumulator bet I think you call it? Myself and boyfriend of the time put a tenner on it ourselves haha. First 2 teams won and we were already spending the dosh but last team lost. Haha. Good times.

Perhaps one day Hatstrategicallydipped you'll make it to the gealtacht could be a new goal for the future! (It was actually horrible for the most part!🤣)

I think it was his eldest daughter who was on heroin. He had a good few children if I remember correctly.