Ds (13) sobbing uncontrollably about lack of hobbies and talents - where have gone wrong

[looseddaughter]

Ds1 (13) has just gone to bed after a good 90 mins of ranting and sobbing over his perceived lack of hobbies and talents. He was as upset as I have ever seen him and it was horrible.

It started as I told him he'd had enough laptop for the day when he said he was going to his room and he said there was nothing else to do and it spiralled from there. We have had a pretty shit holiday in the sense that we've been in most days (isolated for a week and then obviously not a lot you can do in tier 4) so I don't know if there's an element of boredom after having been pent up but it did seem deeper.

He keep saying whatever he does there are 'people 10 steps ahead of me,' and 'I just want a hobby I can do that I'm good at and enjoy...a talent.' This was all through sobs. To be honest, it's true that he doesn't really have a hobby. He loves reading but only ever wants to do it just before bed, obviously enjoys his laptop and is a history fanatic so uses it for research, documentaries and history- based computer games. He doesn't do lego, likes the odd boardgame and doesn't do any sport except cricket, which was a nightmare last season as despite doing brilliantly in training he had a few nightmare games and did silly things like running himself out. I know he felt shit at the end of the season.

I think he tends to give up on things as soon as they're difficult. He bought some figures, again, history based, last year that needed painting and after the initial enthusiasm he got fed up of how fiddly it was and left it. Same thing happened with model making a couple of years ago. He got really into cycling last year but then seemed to just go right off it - not really sure why. He just gets these initial bursts of enthusiasm and then everything peters into nothingness. It doesn't help that he seems quite limited socially, even Covid aside, and despite having friends in school and telling me about them he rarely interacts with them outside school. Before lockdown never went out with them unless it was a party and now rarely online with them.

He's academically able and in top sets for everything with a real flair I'd say for English and humanities. I don't know if this is part of the problem as in a lot of things come quite easily to him then when something doesn't he just stops. He plays clarinet but has no real enthusiasm for it and moans endlessly about practising but insists he wants to carry on when I ask. Today he was crying about making no progress in it and I did explain (nicely) that he does the bare minimum practice so what does he expect? I was trying to say people with 'talents' or hobbies are prepared to spend hours on them and that's how they get good, which he doesn't do really, aside from cricket, which still didn't go well. He asked for a guitar last year but again had no interest in it really and it has barely been touched for months.

Earlier we'd watched a French crime drama with subtitles because he loves the genre and I casually suggested it as I like them and he's doing French at school. He's in Y9 and getting what the school call 'grades 7-9', so doing really well. However, he got really upset and said he couldn't hear any of the words he was supposed to know. I tried to explain that was to be expected but he kept saying how hard it was then mentioned a boy in his class who gets full marks every time and has apparently read LOTR in French.

I just don't know how to handle this. On the one hand I obviously don't want to pressure him and don't want him comparing himself to others in an unhealthy way, but on the other hand I kind of do think a hobby would do him good and have often felt he could do with sticking at things a bit more but I don't know how to approach it. Cricket is the thing he has devoted most time and energy to and, as I said, it doesn't really seem to have paid off. I was also trying to get across that hobbies aren't necessarily about excelling at something but are about enjoyment, but I think that's hard for him to get, especially where sport is concerned.

I also feel the usual guilt as his dad and I are divorced and I feel that disadvantages him because of living between two houses etc. Dad is a musician but has never got involved with the music practice and I feel ds is keeping it on to please his dad but also won't ask him for help. I don't really have hobbies, or not ones that are active - just things like reading, watching films, travel... not things where I actually do anything so not a good role model. Don't know - feel we have let him down and really don't know how to help.

Firstly OP, don’t blame yourself. I voted YANBU because I meant to say this isn’t really your fault: you’ve given him loads of opportunities.

With the best will in the world if he isn’t going to practice then he won’t get better at things- maybe encourage him with cricket again next year, but only if it doesn’t knock his confidence if he’s bad at it.

I disagree about allowing unlimited screen time, I think that really negatively impacts mental health. If he will read before bed why don’t you and he set a target of a number of books read by March etc? That way it’s a good home based activity, but still a feeling of achievement to build on.

He may just be more academic than good at sports, hobbies etc - and that’s fine.

Another idea might be to get him to focus on what school subject he likes best and might want to do at degree level- loads of children flourish at university and really find their tribe there. That was certainly the case for my very intelligent, but somewhat socially awkward, DH.

I think you do need to emphasise the need to practice though if he wants to get good- maybe say you insist on half an hour guitar practice in the living room with you for 3 months every day, then he can ditch it if he’s not better within three months- but after that much practice he probably will be.

Also, where is his Dad in all this? He needs to be informed of how upset your DS was, and needs to know about him maybe needing help with his instruments- a good father should support his son and show enthusiasm in his interests. If your relationship is amicable I’d pick up the phone and discuss it.

Good luck.

@MrsMap

What about letting him decorate his bedroom? A nice mix of research, planning, and activity doing it.....and with the bonus of a fab new room as a reward!

This is the best idea I have seen on the thread.

I'd really lay off all the 'hobbies'.

People need genuine interests. You can't workshop that for another person.

@sittingpondering

I voted Yabu as your son already has two hobbies: reading and an interest in history. The definition of hobby is something you do for pleasure so IMO the issue here is not that he has no interests but that it is becoming pressured for him to fund one to be the ‘best’ in otherwise it’s not worth doing. He’s getting good grades at school, so as long as he’s healthy and gets exercise then why can’t he just have space to enjoy pursuing whatever interests him without pressure to excel in one thing? Why can’t he just enjoy reading at bedtime and watching his history documentaries?

It’s fine to be a generalist and interested in lots if things. He’s clearly focussed and motivated at school. I would stop ‘casually’ suggesting french foreign language films and ask him what history documentary he’d like to watch together.

And I agree with all this too. He has interests.

Bless him op. As an adult I get what he is saying. Sometimes I wish I had a hobby or talent as well. If you ask me something like if you had all the resources and freedom to just do your hobby/talent i could not give you an answer. I am so worried about my own ds growing up the same.
Following.

Interesting to see a couple of people who mentioned ADHD. I am autistic and your post sounds exactly like me. It is to do with executive functioning skills, which can be similarly challenging in both ADHD and autism. I also find with me that it is a self confidence issue too

Have a look at games where you actually play against someone else. Not just the popular ones but things like scrabble, reversi etc.

As he likes walking what about geocaching?

Very few people are good at things when they start, Darcy Bussell started 2 years behind her peers at White Lodge but put in extra hours of practice at school and in the holidays.

Olympic athletes often train 8 hours a day.

Cooking is a great skill to have and can become a hobby or even a job for life. You can incorporate other thigs into cooking eg what did Henry VIII eat? How was it cooked? What are ANZAK biscuits?

The 'back in time for tea' type programmes could give him some ideas.

I’ve seen your update about him wanting to join the Labour Party.

Labour Students is active on U.K. university campuses and most uni’s have a Labour Club- he’ll find his tribe there, I can assure you! Maybe get him to Google them as it’s something to look forward to?

A lot of this thread hits quite close to home for me - being academically gifted also came too easily to me as a child and I feel both fear of failure and frustration when I don't master something immediately have held me back as an adult. This is the case even when I know it's irrational.

It also sounds like your DS is trying on a lot of hobbies because he thinks he "should" like/be good at them, or because the cool kids at school do them, without knowing exactly what he WANTS to do, which is perhaps a separate issue and very normal for teenagers.

The good news is that from the sounds of it he has a passion and a hobby - history. Starting to write a history of Britain at the age of 9 is amazing even if he didn't finish it! And the thing is that a passion for history doesn't really lend itself to any obvious teenage hobbies as such. I have a feeling he'll be a first-class history academic as an adult though.

In terms of the perfectionism and fear of failure - I would suggest trying stuff that has obvious markers of improvement. So even if you don't master it straight away you can see yourself getting better. Duolingo is really good for this - and in terms of physical activity running, especially couch to 5k, is also something where the fact of improvement, rather than mastery, is a real motivator.

In terms of pursuing his passion - the great thing about history is that there's SO MUCH of it, and the school curriculum barely scratches the surface. And the information is all out there. Encourage him to research an era or a country that he hasn't done before. Encourage him to look at different angles to historical periods. This is about pursuing knowledge for the sake of it rather than being "good" at it.

I also noted that he likes to read but doesn't get round to it until just before bed. This might be a screen/internet-related thing - it afflicts us all sadly. I sadly find that as a former voracious reader, I have to tear myself away from online distractions and force myself to sit down for a few hours with a book - my attention span is nowhere near what it used to be. It's about carving out blocks of time to read, NOT just before bed!

I hate the head to head type competition way of schools trying to increase motivation. It is a definite way of reducing self esteem in the vulnerable - ultimately the order of kids is likely to always be roughly the same!

Ultimately most of us are not fantastically good at anything particular...that is because most of the population lurks around average (think of the bell curve).

I would try and help him with boosting his own self esteem, perhaps with some CBT type materials or books like 'you are awesome'.
Introduce headspace/mindfulness/relaxation.

Brainstorm other activities to try - I know it is limited in lockdown - and make a list. Try each one and cross off those that are not enjoyed.
e.g. cooking, gardening, running (have a goal, e.g. 5km), crosswords, writing something, duolingo (french), starting to learn latin if good at languages, painting, needlework of some kind, decorating a room of the house.

Good luck!

@VestaTilley

I’ve seen your update about him wanting to join the Labour Party.

Labour Students is active on U.K. university campuses and most uni’s have a Labour Club- he’ll find his tribe there, I can assure you! Maybe get him to Google them as it’s something to look forward to?

He can join younger than that, surely?

I really get this, OP, because at 13 my son was the same, right down to the way he used the internet for history research.

We had a long talk about how a hobby is something you do because you love it, not something you do to be the best at it. It probably helped that he had grown up seeing me practice my various hobbies - so he intellectually knew that to be good, you have to practice, even if you have talent. He wasn't really emotionally believing that though I think.

We also talked about perfectionism, because he used to love lego as a child, and was really good at it. But as he got older he would get frustrated if he couldn't work it out immediately, and so he stopped doing it altogether.

So we talked about how failing is the first step to success.

In the end, he decided to drop the hobbies that required practice anyway, because he went for the things he really enjoyed - the history and also politics. He's at University now, and before COVID had his time full of political and history groups, and he also developed a love of films and filming. He currently is filling this gap by running discord servers on specific topics and making short films.

I hope your son is feeling better this morning. I agree with those who say he does have interests, and I'd encourage him to try to begin letting go of his perfectionism, but I'm sure his future is bright anyway. His love of history will lead him down so many potential rabbit holes that I'm sure he will discover his own hobbies like my son did

I hate the head to head type competition way of schools trying to increase motivation. It is a definite way of reducing self esteem in the vulnerable - ultimately the order of kids is likely to always be roughly the same!

It actually reduces the self-esteem of all.

The ones not winning feel like failures.

The ones 'winning' feel insecure as they worry what happens if they get overtaken.

Competition is a very poor, very damaging motivator - even in high level athletics etc the focus is on individual performance, beating your PB, refining technique.

Competition and the success/failure obsession is destroying so much happiness. Focus on process (input) not output.

It sounds like he needs some help to learn how to achieve that feeling of mastery. Can you help him to devise a practice timetable and stick to it? Use the habit app to prompt him to do something a few times a week? Some people (meeee) have troubles breaking down the huge task into tiny chunks and regulating emotions around something taking a while to achieve (too much nervous energy). He might not practice clarinet because he's anxious about not improving and therefore doesn't enjoy it in the moment. But if he was helped with his emotions around it and he found a way to prompt himself to practice then he actually would get back to it being fun. Perfectionism is so corrosive and does correlate with mental health issues, the closer you can get him to the growth mindset the better. I dread to think what these 'head to heads' are in school! Sounds

Oh, and yes, you can join the Labour Party from 14. I missed your update that your son was into politics - my son joined as a 14th birthday present, he'd been waiting for it!

Hi OP,
Sorry to hear your son was feeling low. Firstly I think it is normal to get low now and then in the circumstances.

I wanted to suggest your son try "simply piano" music app. You can use it with any old keyboard that you might be able to borrow from someone you know or pick up cheaply.

It makes learning to play the piano quite like a computer game. I think there is a month free trial and then can be paid monthly (so you can stop if it's not used) or annually.

Similar apps are available for guitar but a keyboard is much easier to get cracking and learn to play a few songs than a guitar - without any need for adult or expert help. (no tuning/little technique at this early point).

My son used Simply Piano for around a year before he started lessons (and needed a better keyboard with touch responsive keys). He was pretty much ready for his grade 1 piano (which isn't actually that easy). Now after over year of lessons the app is too easy but it played a wonderful role in getting him started.

It's quite rewarding in itself to do, it has lots of varied music with backing tracks, and doesn't mean he needs to give up on the clarinet or guitar. It will support him being generally musical.

Just an idea. It does sound like your son already has loads of interests. When the weather improves and we can all get outside things will feel better.

When they resume "junior parkrun" is something else to try as your son could concentrate on improving his own personal best time and not worry too much about the times of others.

Ah bless him, he is frustrated with who he is ATM - I would have said these are fairly typical feelings for his age group - he is not quite old enough to plough his own furrow yet, but he is old enough to be aware of life beyond his immediate home and circle and yearns for more for himself.

Tbh I would put some restrictions on screen time - the images that teens see are of a false world where everyone is skilled, beautiful, rich etc , which breeds discontent - plus I know of so many parents (including myself) who say their DC return back to their usual happy, enquiring, content selves when they are forced to do something else (although be warned the transition might be painful!).

I think your son needs a challenge. How about looking at the Conqueror app here where he can walk or run Hadrian's wall virtually (outside!) or other famous walking or pilgrimage routes with "rewards" /info at each stage along the way. Maybe with a promise you will do the real thing when the world returns to normal?

Or how about buying him art materials - he could try oils?

Or try cooking some sophisticated Italian dishes?
Or write some journalism stories/short stories/ or a book?

Good luck op ; your son is trying to find himself which is a challenging process, but it's also a positive thing. Listen to his cues and gently guide/steer/encourage/ facilitate while bearing in mind that it's a very frustrating and difficult time for teens ATM.

Lots of good suggestions here. Can you get him involved in cooking/housework/ gardening/basic DIY at all? Not as a "hobby" obviously, but to stave off the immediate boredom. Might be good for him to feel like he's doing something useful?

I am not saying here that feeling 'good' at stuff is essential for a child, but it is what your DS has said he wants so I'll comment.

The thing with kids hobbies is that, to get good at them, they need a parent facilitating. It doesn't just happen and the child doesn't initially know what they have to do to be successful.

You say he plays cricket- have you made sure he's with the best club you can reasonably travel to? Have you talked to the local high performance development coach (or whatever they are called in cricket) about the elite pathway for youth players and what training sessions you can take him to? Has he tried out for the County? Have you signed him up to the best coaching camps in the holidays? Have you found out what training he can do at home and supervised that?

You say he plays the clarinet- have you made sure he's with the best teacher you can reach and has as many lessons as you can possibly pay for? Have you found a Junior Department for him to audition for? Have look looked at the criteria for NYO and aimed him at the auditions for that? Have you written a practise schedule and supervised it?

You say he plays chess- have you taken him to the best chess club you can reach? Have you talked to a chess coach about the chess opportunities for youth players? Have you entered him in junior tournaments? Have you bought books and the best computer programmes and supervised practise?

I'm NOT saying you should do all this stuff- but the tiger parents will, and more. For your DS to feel as though he had a 'talent' (which is a myth, it's just which kid has had the best opportunities and done the most work) this is the sort of thing you would need to do.

It's hard too. My DS is at National Squad level for his sport. It takes up all of our spare resources and time as a whole family. Covid-excepted we travel thousands of miles every year for it and spend thousands of pounds. Being 'good' at a kids' hobby is not for the faint-hearted.

Even for kids with a hobby 14 ish is difficult as if your child isn’t amazing at the sport or prepared to sacrifice their life for it it falls away. This has happened to several of dds friends. Dd didn’t make the youth section of her sport as she decent but not stellar and the competition was stiff and the private school girls do twice the practice as the state girls so it’s like their hands tied behind their backs anyway 🙄.

Thankfully she had played with the ladies and got into that team but her friend who also didn’t make the junior team can’t play any more🙁

@reefedsail I do tend to agree. My sons both play tennis and even though they’re only junior, they have a lesson once a week, a squad once a week and a competition every two weeks or so, plus tennis camps, and a new racquet every 8-10 months , but this sets us back thousands every year!
They love it though and I enjoy watching them so i don’t mind. It is tough though on a sport that will only ever be a hobby for them!

I had to write because your son sounds a lot like mine at that age! My ds is 17, but when he was younger he had no hobbies. His Dad (my DH!) runs a particular youth organisation, however, as soon as DS was able to join (min age limit) he didn’t want to, despite saying for about 5 yrs he really wanted to join! We didn’t pressurise him and eventually he joined. Obv, it’s not on at the moment.
DS also plays on his computer a lot, but actually it is where his friends are. The only rule I have is that if he’s spending time playing with people, he must know them IRL. As long as college work is done then he can play online. He also likes to go out for bike rides now and has another hobby that is cancelled for the foreseeable future due to Covid.
I would say to you not to stress over computer time at the moment. It is probably the only thing that gives him a sense of normality in this strange world. Don’t worry - his time will come and one day you’ll be taking him all over the place for his hobbies! There are a lot worse things for him to be doing!

Hi op my eldest ds is 13 and year 9 too. He does a lot of gaming, particularly at the moment with tier 4 and his rugby club is closed etc. He won't be going back to school for a few weeks like everyone else his age.
I think exercise is so important so I (make) him do a 2 mile run followed by basic functional exercises such as squats/ pressups etc and walk the dog every day. It gets him out of the house and he (and his brother) need it.
We are not designed to sit in chairs all day it is so bad for us. If your ds were to do a basic exercise regime every day it would lift his mood and help with his fitness for cricket too. Initially I would motivate my ds with money eg I'd say 'if you can run a mile without stoping I'll give you X amount'. Now he can see the benefit of it, I don't need too, its improved his rugby skills massively and given him confidence as he's as fast and strong as the other boys.
We also get him to do jobs around the house/ garden for money (he's saving up for something).
Other things he enjoys (other than gaming) are playing keyboard, puzzles, rugby, hockey, trying to train the dog (this is largely unsuccessful but you've gotta work with what you've got!). He has a good group of friends from school but he's not into social media or texting and when he's at home he's happier doing his own thing. He also has a YouTube channel (based around gaming) which he uploads stuff to.

At his age I had a range of hobbies. All of which I still revisit. It’s like they’re on a rota.
Would he like something craft based such as wood turning or carving? As there are usually groups locally. Sea cadets is fantastic, all team based but skill building and great fun. Also takes up a reasonable amount of time. Air cadets and young farmers, although the latter can descend into just a good time, are also worth thinking about.

I think this is a relatively common feeling. It's certainly how I am wired, now in my 30s I am better with it all but I have struggled all my life with not being the best at things, and not actually particularly 'good' at anything. I once started a thread about it and lots of people were the same. Over the years I've stomped off and huffed after losing games, not being able to finish learning a piece on the piano, or something I'm making, or if a cake turns out wrong. It's not an attractive trait and I try to fight it but I can't help it, something like losing a few card games in a row can trigger feelings of total worthlessness and shame that overwhelm me. It doesn't help that I see my DH as brilliant at everything he turns his hand to (he generally is) and that triggers me more.

Things that have helped me over the years learn how to manage the feelings are hobbies that are solo, not competing, doing things that are unusual so others haven't seen them before/can't do them, and trying to just naturally do the things I enjoy even if they don't do or make anything. I also set myself targets (x number of books, miles etc) and push myself to try something new and remind myself over and over that I don't know what I'm doing, I'm just beginning (ie a local lamp-making class).

It sounds cheesy but anything where he can help or teach others is almost guaranteed to make him feel better. Can he teach you or his little brother something? And then watch you be rubbish at it, but learning from him.

It will partly be hormones and boredom too though. It's hard just now.

Years and years ago when I was looking for an interest that would really grab me, I looked through the yellow pages page by page. There’s everything there.. sport, sewing, cabinet making.... then I found nail technicians and it hit me like a bolt. That’s what I wanted to do. I practiced, took courses and then made a mini “career” out of it. I had regular paying customers and did for 12 successful years.

Just an idea on how to find your niche or hobby! Obviously yellow pages are old hat now, but an internet search !?