To ask what would people judge as Brexit success

[SchrodingersBox]

"For years, all supposedly sensible pundits have told us Brexit spells doom for Britain – now they must eat their words" Editorial in Bild today.

If UK GDP has grown by more than EU GDP by the end of this parliament, due to be Dec 2024 but probably May 2024, would people who are anti Brexit accept that it has been successful? If not what would it take?

The end of the union maybe. Scottish independence and United Ireland are now both more likely prospects in my lifetime. Brexit - Unionist own goal.

PetertheWalrus
If you think the pressure for the Brexit vote started in 2010
you've not been paying attention

it goes all the way back to the first day a lying little shit of a journalist
decided that telling lies about the EEC was fun
bendy bananas onwards

and UK governments found it useful to have an external blame space for their own laziness

Listening,

The British public were perfectly capable of handling bendy bananas.

What they were less capable of handling was Blair’s duplicitousness over the Lisbon treaty. I would posit that, had we had a referendum on the Lisbon treaty, as every other EU nation did, we would be in the EU today.

Blair left office in 2007
What is your excuse for 2008-2010
and 2010 to 2016
and 2016 to 2020

Why could the British not come to their senses in those times?

2008 was the banking crisis, where the rich and international were bailed out by increasing taxes on the already hard pressed.

Cameron wanted to end internal feuding in the Tory party and gambled incredibly badly, totally misunderstanding the resentment towards the political class.

The rest is history.

@Blibbyblobby

Why is being "Eropean" bigger than being "British"?

What an odd question. Bigger economy, larger market, more people, larger geographical area, wider cultural variation, more varied opportunities. Bigger.

You mean in terms of a larger economy, sure, bigger. (Though if that is the ultimate goal, we could go even bigger than that, yes? Why have national borders at all?)

However, I think that's beside the point in this instance, I don't think that is what is meant when someone says they want to "feel" European and part of something bigger. It's not a statement about the material situation.

I'm the person who said "something bigger" so I can assure you that is exactly what I meant. Furthermore, I didn't say British or European, I said both. So indeed, I can be part of Britain, the EU and the whole world, participating in each as best fits.

What you may choose to assume about what I really meant beyond that is entirely coming from you.

@Blibbyblobby

I'm the person who said "something bigger" so I can assure you that is exactly what I meant. Furthermore, I didn't say British or European, I said both. So indeed, I can be part of Britain, the EU and the whole world, participating in each as best fits.

What you may choose to assume about what I really meant beyond that is entirely coming from you.

My mistake then - but not I think an unreasonable one given the context. Many people have said their desire to be in the EU is about a kind of European identity.

As for larger markets, trade blocks, and so on, there are all kinds of perspectives on whether bigger is better. Free trade is typically best for capitalists and seen as dangerous by leftists and environmentalists. That's oneof the reasons recent reversals in voting patterns seem so odd.

OK, what was all that about the Turing scheme being better?

It only covers costs of £2800 per student for tuition, travel and accommodation, doesn’t cover foreign students coming to the UK to study - so no reciprocity and no incentive for foreign institutions to take part.

It’s yet another opportunity to channel tax payer's money to their Tory chums, before it falls apart.

But Hannibal, it'll be great! As you point out, no pesky foreign students will want to come on this scheme because no funding, and of course all the universities in the EU will waive their fees for British students because They Know Who We Are! And best of all, it has a BRITISH name of a man who was treated horrifically by the British establishment, but we won't mention that bit.

PICTURE MY SURPRISE that it turns out to be a bit shit.

I am shocked I tell you.

Brexit success is not something I expect. Just damage limitation, which would be greater with a business friendly government, which we do not have.

How peculiar that the OP hasn't been back to comment on that little nugget...

Going well for all those who said we would be levelling up...

Fucking. Hell.

(But we Remainers knew that)