To think it's OK to be a teen mum?

[veganmegan]

NC. I rarely start threads on here but I have a question (hope that's OK). My little sister is seventeen and she welcomed into the world a lovely little boy in November. Since announcing his birth on social media, she received a handful of messages from former "friends" saying "Always knew you were a slag, you'll never get a proper job now, do you even know who the father is" (or words to that effect).

So really fucking abusive bullying behaviour. They also said something about her now having to move to a council estate (?) and about "babies shouldn't have babies" (which I guarantee is just a direct quote from someone's judgemental parent).

They're also teenagers so I'm not necessarily holding it entirely against them (as you say all sorts of silly stuff when you're young) but given they're pretty middle class kids who I don't think have even met someone from a council estate, or a teen mum other than my sis, I'm wondering where all of these preconceived stereotypes come from.

She's decided to block them now after my convincing so hopefully there won't be any more online bullying, but I'm wondering who thinks these things? Where does this idea come from? Is this an idea you instil in your own kids, if you're a parent?

I just really feel for her if I'm honest. She's so happy to have her wee baby, but people continuously perceive her as a "slag" solely because she had a baby young. I don't even really know how to support her, just really pisses me off and simultaneously upsets me on her behalf.

They must be a bit dense to equate a teenage pregnancy with being a slag. You can conceive a baby through having sex just the once. That aside, I very much dislike the term slag.

I personally wouldn't have made a good mother as a teen. I'm a very different person now to what I was then. I also think the odds are stacked against you more being a teen mother. Saying that, that doesn't mean you can't be an excellent mother and provide an excellent life for a child. Becoming a mother when you're older doesn't automatically make you a better mother. Plenty of excellent teenage mums out there.

I would prefer my girls not to have babies that young. Purely because having children can have a huge impact on your career even if you're well established in your career. So it would be even harder if just starting out, or if still in education again its just harder. Plenty of people make it work though

Don’t apologise, I didn’t take it as you was being smarmy at all.

I was just continuing the discussion and answering the question. Hope the question didn’t come across rude? Which then made you think I was retaliating? As it was not at all.

I do sometimes wonder if I write aggressively? I just write how I speak, but I do speak in a very slow tone. That clearly doesn’t come across though! 🤦🏼‍♀️

Both my aunts were teenage mothers, my mum didn't have me until she was 25. My aunts both married the fathers - one of them split after a few years and 3 kids, the other is still with her husband 57 years later! Their DS1's partner also became a teen mum, though their DS1 (also my cousin) was in his mid 20s.

The comments are horrible.

As for council estates, I wish more teenage mothers and other families had a prospect of getting a secure home where they can bring up kids, and not be ripped off by an extortionate private rent.. Much better if the young mum (and dad if he's around) can go back to work and earn a wage that will actually cover rent and all the necessaries for the family. Better than living in overpriced and insecure private accommodation. I have a friend I really worried about for several years, but she's now had a chance to move out of London and remake her life. The pandemic is quite scary for her as she has serious health issues after years of very poor housing as a teenager and in her early 20s, but at least she and her family now have a bit more space to shield in.

I'm very conscious that I'm lucky to have my own home with a small mortgage by London standards, and to have family who could help me etc, but a lot of families here would be thrilled to have a chance of council or housing association accommodation.

My mum was pg and got married at 17, she had my sister at 18. She got comments about being too young, being ruined and not having a clue about looking after babies properly. My sister is 58 now and my parents have been married 60 years next year. I was 34 when I had my first and 38 my second. If I'm half as good a mum as she is I'll be bloody proud.

That said, I would never chose being a teen parent for my own dc, it can wait.

@Heartlantern2

Don’t apologise, I didn’t take it as you was being smarmy at all.

I was just continuing the discussion and answering the question. Hope the question didn’t come across rude? Which then made you think I was retaliating? As it was not at all.

I do sometimes wonder if I write aggressively? I just write how I speak, but I do speak in a very slow tone. That clearly doesn’t come across though! 🤦🏼‍♀️

No, not at all. I just read it back and thought I sounded rude!

Well, I voted YANBU because the abuse that your dsis has been subjected to is awful, and she certainly should not be called a slag or any other term of abuse just because she has a child at a young age.

Having said that, I don't agree that it's really "ok" to have a child in your teens, and personally, I would feel like a failure as a parent if this happened to my daughter. I absolutely don't think teen mums should be condemned, but I do pity them enormously. I don't think it's ever desirable to have children at such a young age, for either the parent or the child, even though I'm sure there are some young mums who do an amazing job of parenting.

I wouldn't express this view in real life, but you did ask the question so I am sharing my honest opinion.

@YouBoughtMeAWall

Well isn’t that just fine and dandy that we are funding all this via UC.

Oh do shut up.

No you shut up. Don't be so rude if someone else has an opinion different to yours. Perhaps read and learn?

I don't want to fund through taxes other people having children before they have contributed a penny or anything else to society. The amount of UC available to support these families is very high. A good friend of mine found herself in the same position as OP's sister. Her DC (under age 20) get over £1000 pcm paid for rent through UC. Whereas their peer group at uni are expected to pay £000's in rent to private landlords through loans. There is no rush to have children and we really do need to keep educating teenagers about contraception.

So to answer OP - no I dont think it is really OK for teenagers to have children, but what is really not OK is for your DN to be called names. That is bullying. i do wonder if it was male or female "former" friends?

@veganmegan

Bringing rape into the equation is bizarre. Nowhere has it been mentioned as a factor when asking your 'questions'. Except towards me as a way to be antagonistic.

No, there was a discussion of rape and sexual assault of teenage girls on previous pages - especially how they are still considered "slags" even if they didn't voluntarily consent to sex. You can ignore the mentions of rape if you'd like to, but no amount of having smart / responsible children can protect them from that (though I genuinely wish it could). It's not "bizarre", it's a genuine risk factor for teen pregnancy.

Contraception is accessible to MY children who have been taught that it is not optional if you choose to have sex as a teen, it is the responsible choice.

I am very glad that you make contraception accessible to your teens. Unfortunately, no contraception (that I know of) is 100% effective and so there is still a risk of pregnancy.

But even if you do get accidentally pregnant, you absolutely, categorically do not have to go ahead with the pregnancy. Many (all?) of your posts seem to be pointedly ignoring this.

I think there is definitely somewhat of a class issue at play (and I’m not British, just FYI). I tend to think educated, yes, middle class girls (because teens are girls) generally won’t decide to go on to be a teen Mum.

@TheOneLeggedJockey

Isn't that because, if we want to go down the stereotype route, most "middle class" people have more support and education?

You just have to read through threads on here to see the torment grown women still go through at not going through with the pregnancy.

I'm not quite convinced that many "decide" to be a teen Mum. But I know many who pulled their socks up, got on with it and went on to be fantastic parents.

I think in some ways that says more about your "lower class" girls tha you'd let on.

@spongedog

I know women who worked from 16-23/4, then got married and had children and never worked again in their lives.

I also know women who had children at 16 then started work again at 23/4 and worked for years and still are, or went back to uni and trained as teachers/doctors.

Your point?

That’s starting to not be the case actually! Teenage pregnancy, even in the poorer/ lower class? (Sorry I don’t know what we used to be called) have had a a huge reduction in teenage pregnancies...and continues to drop.....wonder why that is? Maybe because times are very different now.

I don't want to fund through taxes other people having children before they have contributed a penny or anything else to society.

Then don’t. Move to somewhere where they don’t support people when they fall on hard times or need a bit of a safety net.

The amount of UC available to support these families is very high.

That’s because the cost of living is very high. If the government hadn’t sold off all their council properties and failed to replace them then people wouldn’t be stuck paying extortionate rent to private landlords. You clearly haven’t a clue what you’re talking about. so yeah, you can shut up.

@Heartlantern2

That’s starting to not be the case actually! Teenage pregnancy, even in the poorer/ lower class? (Sorry I don’t know what we used to be called) have had a a huge reduction in teenage pregnancies...and continues to drop.....wonder why that is? Maybe because times are very different now.

At a guess? Without derailing?

Other alternatives have far less of a stigma (and rightly so).

You're dodging the point here. Regardless of YOUR children, PP was pointing out that pregnancies can happen by accident - then what?
No, I haven't dodged at all. There are very few 'accidents' when contraception is used correctly but, should a pregnancy occur, abortion is a valid, and mature, option. That's 'what' 🤷‍♀️

PS Contraception does fail. Seen that happen too
Genuine contraception failure is uncommon despite all the anecdotal evidence on MN.

Being pregnant, no matter how it happened, does not mean you have to have a baby and it's often the less selfish and more mature choice to not go ahead

@CJsGoldfish - Yes, fine, but you are still not acknowledging the OP's point about rape, oddly.

As for your point 2, I'm not touching that. I'm really not.

But I know many who pulled their socks up, got on with it and went on to be fantastic parents.

I think in some ways that says more about your "lower class" girls tha you'd let on.

Mmm, if you think drudgery, martyrdom and life limiting choices are something to admire.

That’s starting to not be the case actually! Teenage pregnancy, even in the poorer/ lower class? (Sorry I don’t know what we used to be called) have had a a huge reduction in teenage pregnancies...and continues to drop.....wonder why that is?

Probably because more and more girls are realising there is more to life.

Good for them, they’re the ones I admire.

@TheOneLeggedJockey

But I know many who pulled their socks up, got on with it and went on to be fantastic parents.

I think in some ways that says more about your "lower class" girls tha you'd let on.

Mmm, if you think drudgery, martyrdom and life limiting choices are something to admire.

That’s starting to not be the case actually! Teenage pregnancy, even in the poorer/ lower class? (Sorry I don’t know what we used to be called) have had a a huge reduction in teenage pregnancies...and continues to drop.....wonder why that is?

Probably because more and more girls are realising there is more to life.

Good for them, they’re the ones I admire.

You have got to be on the wind up. What a vile post.

I absolutely wouldn't want my teenage daughter to give birth to and bring up the product of a rape.
It would seem abusive to me to suggest that she should even consider doing so.

I consider this to be a separate issue to teen pregnancies in general.

And I just want to acknowledge OP - some of these responses (including mine) are probably making you feel very defensive of your lovely sister, and for that I am genuinely sorry.

You have asked for opinions though, and so, you are getting them.

It’s an issue people feel very strongly about - from both sides, that is for sure.

Sorry, no, I’m not ‘on the wind up’.

I am heading out though, so won’t be responding for a wee while.

@TheOneLeggedJockey

Sorry, no, I’m not ‘on the wind up’.

I am heading out though, so won’t be responding for a wee while.

Drudgery and misery? Life limiting?

These are people's children we are talking about.

I think its fine t have a child at what ever age you want as long as you can support your child and not he relying on the state or family solely
I know if one you girl who had several children and a couple her wider family have to bring up solely as she couldn't cope ,
Motherhood is hard at any age and I wouldn't encourage my dc to have them that young as there is a whole world out there if things to do first but these things happen and I would of course support them

The only people who disagree with a benefit system are those who have no idea what the real world is like...that or no empathy!

I worked from the age of 16. Mortgage at 18. Always worked, I enjoy it. At 24 shit hit the fan and through no fault of our own (partner was in a car crash) we fell on hard times and relied on benefits for 8 months. I never had any intention of being on benefits, but there we was. It was the worst 8 months of my life! Because I was claiming benefits....nope! The aftermath however was the crux!! Getting OFF benefits was a MASSIVE struggle!! It’s like they try and keep you on them!! Hmrc destroyed my soul for some time.

Age 33. COVID-19 hit- savings were gone after 5 months, decided to hit the breadline and struggle with 2 children, as long as I could feed them and keep the house warm I was NOT claiming benefits again!! I chose to go hungry instead, there is a reason it’s called the “benefit trap”

If you think 1k is enough and too much benefits...that shows you only know half the story- it’s not claiming them, it’s the stake they tie you too. They take away a chance at a better life.

Pregnancy is really, really easy for some - and all the discussion around difficulties becoming pregnant - no one likes to mention how easy it is for some - it is almost a taboo subject as someone's feelings may be hurt.

Lots of women will take risks and do not fall pregnant and some never fall pregnant unless using IVF- for some, one momentary risk and they become pregnant.

I'd not judge someone for being "caught" and having to make a life changing decision at a young age, it is a reality for lots of women.

Sorry OP we have completely derailed.

In answer to your OP, they sound like horrors. I'll never understand calling someone a slag, full stop ever, but particularly only because they had a baby. She'll meet some nice friends in time.