To think it's OK to be a teen mum?

[veganmegan]

NC. I rarely start threads on here but I have a question (hope that's OK). My little sister is seventeen and she welcomed into the world a lovely little boy in November. Since announcing his birth on social media, she received a handful of messages from former "friends" saying "Always knew you were a slag, you'll never get a proper job now, do you even know who the father is" (or words to that effect).

So really fucking abusive bullying behaviour. They also said something about her now having to move to a council estate (?) and about "babies shouldn't have babies" (which I guarantee is just a direct quote from someone's judgemental parent).

They're also teenagers so I'm not necessarily holding it entirely against them (as you say all sorts of silly stuff when you're young) but given they're pretty middle class kids who I don't think have even met someone from a council estate, or a teen mum other than my sis, I'm wondering where all of these preconceived stereotypes come from.

She's decided to block them now after my convincing so hopefully there won't be any more online bullying, but I'm wondering who thinks these things? Where does this idea come from? Is this an idea you instil in your own kids, if you're a parent?

I just really feel for her if I'm honest. She's so happy to have her wee baby, but people continuously perceive her as a "slag" solely because she had a baby young. I don't even really know how to support her, just really pisses me off and simultaneously upsets me on her behalf.

What those people have messaged to your sister is vile and inexcusable.

I admit, though. It’s not what I want for my DD.

It’s not what my parents wanted for me. They never passed judgment on teen parents (at least, certainly not in my presence).

What they did do, was encourage education, and joked about how our family had always been late procreators.

But the most effective thing they did was share stories of the sorts of things they did when they were in their 20s. They travelled and saw the world. Went to interesting places. Had interesting experiences. Met interesting people. Made life long friends.

Then they settled down, and had my DB and I. And we had a lovely life, with two parents who’d made a conscious decision to be together for life, and to have us, and were well positioned to do their best by us.

They were great role models.

I do the same with my kids - DS and DD.

If DD did have an accident, I’d be talking with her, and reminding her that she has options.

I had an ‘accident’ when I was in my mid-20s, so well out of teens, and I knew I had options. I simply wasn’t ready to be a parent. Certainly not to be a good parent.

Having a child very young is life limiting for most people. I don’t want that for my DD, and I always want her to know she has options and choices available to her, to get the most out of her life (seeing as she only gets one).

I would support her in whatever she wanted to do, but I’d be very much hoping she made choices to get the best out of life.

I am not sure what you mean by "is it ok?".

It is probably extremely difficult, and all of the statistics show that it is likely to be less good in terms of outcomes for both the mother and child.

I supported myself from 16 years old and studied and it was extremely hard. Having become a mother in my 30s, I can't imagine how I would have done that and got my qualifications and built the career I have if I'd had a child then. Or what kind of a life I could have given a child then considering how poor I was. Or, finances aside, what I would have had to offer or teach a child in terms of stability, life experience, etc, because I was still a child myself.

Yes some teenage parents manage to do a good job. But by all accounts it is difficult, and the reason that pretty much all developed countries discourage it is that it tends to limit the opportunities of both the mothers and children, in general.

Yes there will be exceptions and the bullying you mention is disgraceful. She has the baby now and I wish her well and it sounds like she is doing a good job, and it's great she has a supportive family. But it must be isolating and for all of the reasons above and those that other posters have stated, I think it's quite obvious why it isn't ideal to have a child before you are a mature adult yourself, financially stable, etc.

Meh. Of course they have, it's part of being responsible. Me as a parent and them as a sexual partner.

It's part of being responsible to not get raped?
Also contraception is not easily accessible to everyone FWIW.

The cycle of children having children 🤷‍♀️

My parents were in their twenties when they had me, and late twenties when they had my DSis. I said "pretty young" in comparison to today's trend of having children into your thirties, but they were by no means "children."

I’ve obviously not worded my post correctly. Firstly I have no intention of insulting or offending anyone.

My mum had me at a very young age- just to get a council house, so yes, my view or opinion probably is skewed on this subject.

However, I believe it was ok back then to be a teenage mum as there was so much help. You got a council place and benefits used to be a lot higher. Being a teenage parent now a days though is a completely different ball game and they will not fare as well as all the people on this post saying they was a teenage mum and did alright for themselves back in the 80’s or 90’s. Teenage mums now a days have it so so much more harder.

It’s practically foolish now- you get such little help, and if you don’t have family propping you up then it’s in no way going to get better for you, as the opportunities are not there like how they used to be for past teenage parents.

Their behavior is absolutely appalling. I'd tell their parents if I knew them.

That said - I'm the child of teenage parents and know how hard life was for my my parents (and us) and how few opportunities they had. I'd be beside myself with sorrow if any of my children became parents in their teens. Beside myself. Honestly, I can't think of anything positive about becoming a teenage parent. Not a thing.

You’ll get looks if you’re under 22 you’ll get looks if your over 42...

So who cares. Let folk judge away, as long as mam an baby are ok, it’s no ones business

They’re not her friends.

But, I do think it’s ok for people to feel it isn’t ideal to be a teen mum. I don’t want my daughters to be teen mums because I want them to enjoy their freedom, build a career, travel and generally just really live their life to the full before becoming a mum and all the responsibilities and restrictions that entails.

Having said that if they did they would have my full support.

Patch them.

I won't go into details as it's outing, but a very close friend of mine had a child at around the same age and is now SMASHING LIFE.

other counterparts of ours who had a lot to say - not so much.

Congraulations on your nephew :)

re PP, it is absolutely fine to be a parent. Sure, it's not what you'd like for your child, but life isn't predictable. If they are a good parent and both are happy and healthy, age doesn't matter. Some of my friends had babies young and did the uni and life stuff later, some of us did it the other way round. There is no right and wrong, there really isn't. I couldn't bring myself to be heartbroken if my child and grandchild were healthy and happy but then I've seen it in reality.

It is awful what has been said to your sister and I echo the support others have given.

That said I would also be devastated for my DD if she fell pregnant young. I would absolutely support her though and help her to achieve as best she could what she wanted to. I just think it is too much responsibility too young, that it would be extremely tough facing the stigma which unfortunately still exists, it can be tougher to achieve what you want to as you're juggling childcare, you have way less freedom, and statistics show the disadvantages teen mums and their kids face. So though it is possible to thrive, its harder than having children later and no sensible parent would want their child to have a harder time than they need to have even if they would support them through it and ultimately be happy and love their grandchild.

To add some balance to the discussions, you'll always have plenty of success stories but I also know so so many people who were teen mums (alot of people I went to school with were) who haven't done so well. In poverty either out of work or on low incomes and it's been a struggle for them, more so likely than if they could've established themselves first. Hopefully now their children are older they'll have the confidence to put themselves back out there but it is undeniably so much harder. Not everyone has support. Two people very close to me were teen mums and struggled so much it has genuinely impacted their lives and that of their kids. It would be wrong not to acknowledge the genuine struggle some have.

@Heartlantern2

I’ve obviously not worded my post correctly. Firstly I have no intention of insulting or offending anyone.

My mum had me at a very young age- just to get a council house, so yes, my view or opinion probably is skewed on this subject.

However, I believe it was ok back then to be a teenage mum as there was so much help. You got a council place and benefits used to be a lot higher. Being a teenage parent now a days though is a completely different ball game and they will not fare as well as all the people on this post saying they was a teenage mum and did alright for themselves back in the 80’s or 90’s. Teenage mums now a days have it so so much more harder.

It’s practically foolish now- you get such little help, and if you don’t have family propping you up then it’s in no way going to get better for you, as the opportunities are not there like how they used to be for past teenage parents.

This just isn't true, Heart.

As I said above, my friends who had children young have now managed all the stuff I managed to do pre child , just post child. Life works in mysterious ways and there is no one size fits all.

We're all taught to believe that it's a disaster, and I think we can probably all agree that there are strong arguments for waiting a few years.

But:
I teach two kids whose mums were teenagers when they had them, and they are some of the nicest kids I've ever taught. They are hardworking, well adjusted, kind, mature, just all-round good eggs. Their parents are very supportive of them in so many ways. And because they're still young themselves they have lots of energy for their kids. One family has a really cool hobby that takes them on the sort of adventures most kids wouldn't even dream of. The other family has a raft of young fit grandparents who contribute their skills and expertise. Both kids are making unexpectedly fast progress in their academic work. They're forcing me to revise some of my preconceived biases about teen mums!

Yes because back then it was easier being a teenage mum that it is now a days.

You hear lots of suscess stories about teenage parents, that’s good!

I feel 20 years from now, you won’t be hearing them at all- teenage parents these days are not given even half what they used to get.

Surely though it depends on your relationship?

Have a shifty through the threads on here about women in their 30s in horrendous relationships with kids.

I know men and women who had kids at 17, 18, 19 ten years ago who are going as strong as ever.

Heart - what do you think the difference is now from then?

It also works the other way too.

I was 45 when I had my third and there was a woman of 26 having her third, had her first in her teens and she was very loudly chatting to another young mum about how she’s judged for having three so young, she then went on to say she thinks it’s disgusting that women over 40 are having kids, they’re too old etc etc... I sat there thinking the irony!

I remember my young teen DD seeing a family friend of about 16 with her DD. It worried me that she thought this was a lovely idea, having a baby when you were living at home with your parents. Of course I didn't tell DD that it was wrong or shameful, but I did try and explain the difficulties that came with having a baby so young and that it is better to wait until you are in a stable relationship with someone you believe will make a good father.

There is a difference between not what you'd choose for your child and not OK though.

My mother would like to see me married with 2 children to a lawyer and living in a city in a posh house and doing something different to the job I do now, but my life is certainly OK.

As is being a mother, and I think to say that being a mum in your teens "isnt OK" is offensive, personally. It might be not what you'd choose, or encourage in fact, and I get that, but that's different.

You put what I meant much more succinctly than I did, @Wheresmykimchi ☺ I agree with you.

It's part of being responsible to not get raped?
Also contraception is not easily accessible to everyone FWIW
Bringing rape into the equation is bizarre. Nowhere has it been mentioned as a factor when asking your 'questions'. Except towards me as a way to be antagonistic. Not playing that game.
Contraception is accessible to MY children who have been taught that it is not optional if you choose to have sex as a teen, it is the responsible choice. Not an 'accidental' pregnancy if one chooses not to use contraception and hardly a mature and grown up decision 🤷‍♀️

I know the difference is

1, (I’m in the south east actually so don’t know if this is just here or country wide?) There are NO councils houses available...you will be out in emergency accommodation, which is a room in a building with a shared kitchen and there you will be for YEARS whilst you wait for a council house/flat to become available to you- there is just not enough council houses anymore!

2, benefits are so low nowadays. You used to be able to live off them pretty ok, but nowadays it’s hardly enough.

3, when the child is 5, you have to return to work- back in the ‘old days’ you didn’t. So now everyone needs a term time 10-3 job...so now there is a huge shortage and a job with those hours is like finding hens teeth.

4, Education, like courses and universities have to now be paid for.

5, cost of food, gas, electric has gone up compared to the 80’s whilst benefits have gone down

6, insurance costs for teenagers is a joke- they have no chance of buying a car and paying for that if they also have to support a baby.

It’s just so different now- it’s so much harder!!

I don't see the problem with it and if my kid got pregnant as a teen, I would support her completely just like my grandma did. Age of consent is 16 and people seem to forget the biological purpose of sex is to have babies. No other species in the world gets so precious about when to have babies and no other species uses contraception.
People always seem to need someone to stigmatize. It used to be unmarried mothers. Nowadays they've revised the words they use but not the sentiment, and they hate on teen mothers. Because people assume they're not married (or in a long term relationship).
People go on about how you can't travel in your twenties if you're looking after a baby. But no one ever says that to people who are doing a PhD through their twenties. And you can totally travel with kids.
I never travelled until I was married and in my thirties, because I couldn't afford to, so I'm a little sceptical of all this "young free and single" "you'll lose your freedom if you get pregnant" crap because it only applies to people who got dealt the right cards e.g. parental support.
Congratulations and good luck to your DSis, OP, I'm sure she's going to do amazing things in life especially with such a supportive sister at her side.

Bringing rape into the equation is bizarre. Nowhere has it been mentioned as a factor when asking your 'questions'. Except towards me as a way to be antagonistic.

No, there was a discussion of rape and sexual assault of teenage girls on previous pages - especially how they are still considered "slags" even if they didn't voluntarily consent to sex. You can ignore the mentions of rape if you'd like to, but no amount of having smart / responsible children can protect them from that (though I genuinely wish it could). It's not "bizarre", it's a genuine risk factor for teen pregnancy.

Contraception is accessible to MY children who have been taught that it is not optional if you choose to have sex as a teen, it is the responsible choice.

I am very glad that you make contraception accessible to your teens. Unfortunately, no contraception (that I know of) is 100% effective and so there is still a risk of pregnancy.

@Heartlantern2

I’ve obviously not worded my post correctly. Firstly I have no intention of insulting or offending anyone.

My mum had me at a very young age- just to get a council house, so yes, my view or opinion probably is skewed on this subject.

However, I believe it was ok back then to be a teenage mum as there was so much help. You got a council place and benefits used to be a lot higher. Being a teenage parent now a days though is a completely different ball game and they will not fare as well as all the people on this post saying they was a teenage mum and did alright for themselves back in the 80’s or 90’s. Teenage mums now a days have it so so much more harder.

It’s practically foolish now- you get such little help, and if you don’t have family propping you up then it’s in no way going to get better for you, as the opportunities are not there like how they used to be for past teenage parents.

I completely agree. My parents got a council flat right away and the desire to "get out of the house" (their parent's) was definitely a factor. They simply would not get anywhere near that level of support were they to be teenagers in 21st century Britain. And they have done comparatively "well" all things considering - but if they had been 30 years younger I'd bet my mortgage that they'd have found life immeasurably harder.

What particularly saddens me is seeing how much that pattern has repeated itself. Of my mums siblings, they all had kids as teenagers. Those children - my cousins - by and large did the same. As did their children. One of my cousins became a grandmother at age 38.

That lost potential - because despite the tales of these superhuman teenage parents who now have mortgage free London properties at the age of 28, or scaled the heady heights of City finance with a buggy in tow, the chances of that kind of success is vanishingly small - makes me want to weep. One of my cousins in particular, was as smart as a whip and could have done anything with her life. Instead she's just moved from one "crappy" (her words) rental flat to another, working her minimum wage job to survive.

And FWIW I'm appreciative of you answering the questions, but I'm still happy to disagree with your answers.

@CJsGoldfish

It's part of being responsible to not get raped? Also contraception is not easily accessible to everyone FWIW Bringing rape into the equation is bizarre. Nowhere has it been mentioned as a factor when asking your 'questions'. Except towards me as a way to be antagonistic. Not playing that game. Contraception is accessible to MY children who have been taught that it is not optional if you choose to have sex as a teen, it is the responsible choice. Not an 'accidental' pregnancy if one chooses not to use contraception and hardly a mature and grown up decision 🤷‍♀️

You're dodging the point here. Regardless of YOUR children, PP was pointing out that pregnancies can happen by accident - then what?

PS Contraception does fail. Seen that happen too.

@Heartlantern2

I know the difference is

1, (I’m in the south east actually so don’t know if this is just here or country wide?) There are NO councils houses available...you will be out in emergency accommodation, which is a room in a building with a shared kitchen and there you will be for YEARS whilst you wait for a council house/flat to become available to you- there is just not enough council houses anymore!

2, benefits are so low nowadays. You used to be able to live off them pretty ok, but nowadays it’s hardly enough.

3, when the child is 5, you have to return to work- back in the ‘old days’ you didn’t. So now everyone needs a term time 10-3 job...so now there is a huge shortage and a job with those hours is like finding hens teeth.

4, Education, like courses and universities have to now be paid for.

5, cost of food, gas, electric has gone up compared to the 80’s whilst benefits have gone down

6, insurance costs for teenagers is a joke- they have no chance of buying a car and paying for that if they also have to support a baby.

It’s just so different now- it’s so much harder!!

Sorry Heart I wasn't being smarmy - I was genuinely asking. This is interesting reading .