To think it's OK to be a teen mum?

[veganmegan]

NC. I rarely start threads on here but I have a question (hope that's OK). My little sister is seventeen and she welcomed into the world a lovely little boy in November. Since announcing his birth on social media, she received a handful of messages from former "friends" saying "Always knew you were a slag, you'll never get a proper job now, do you even know who the father is" (or words to that effect).

So really fucking abusive bullying behaviour. They also said something about her now having to move to a council estate (?) and about "babies shouldn't have babies" (which I guarantee is just a direct quote from someone's judgemental parent).

They're also teenagers so I'm not necessarily holding it entirely against them (as you say all sorts of silly stuff when you're young) but given they're pretty middle class kids who I don't think have even met someone from a council estate, or a teen mum other than my sis, I'm wondering where all of these preconceived stereotypes come from.

She's decided to block them now after my convincing so hopefully there won't be any more online bullying, but I'm wondering who thinks these things? Where does this idea come from? Is this an idea you instil in your own kids, if you're a parent?

I just really feel for her if I'm honest. She's so happy to have her wee baby, but people continuously perceive her as a "slag" solely because she had a baby young. I don't even really know how to support her, just really pisses me off and simultaneously upsets me on her behalf.

That sounds really rough for her, I hope she finds more supportive people like you to counterbalance that.

I married at 18, had my honeymoon baby a month after turning 19, he's now a lovely teenager - couldn't be happier with him most of the time. I got a lot of shitty comments for a few years and I actually found people who knew I was married (particularly professionals, people in the baby group) were far nastier than random people who didn't know either way. A bit of immigrant hate was thrown in there to.

I teach my children that having a child under 20 is very risky in many ways. I took a major gamble, I knew part of it but not all of it when I rolled the dice. In most ways, it's come up great for me - great marriage, lovely kids, life younger me couldn't have dreamed of - but not so much when it came to my health - at that age, a lot is still being built up and if you tap into it so heavily with pregnancy, issues are more likely to happen. Some get away with it, some like me seem fine until the cracks show up later, and some pay the price right away. Lifetime disability is highest in under 20s as are maternal deaths, before getting into the social risks of isolation, the pressure a child puts on relationships, the higher risks to both mother and child if another partner comes on the scene (from studies I've seen, the idea of stepparents being more violent has mostly been debunked, but there is a higher risk if it's not really a consistent relationship - a fling which too many early studies condemning as proof of how bad stepparents are - or the stepparent is particularly young, under 25).

I teach my children that life requires balancing risks, responsibilities, and benefits. I have thought maybe things would have been better if I could magically shift them all a few years later, I would have been so much calmer in their younger years and maybe my health would be better, but then my younger children wouldn't remember their uncle or grandparents, so many other things would be different too. I accept the risk I've taken, but I want my children to know better before they consider taking them. I want them to have more options and know their options more than I did. I didn't, I fully admit young me mostly thought that seems better than where I've come from which it was and still 1000% is and took a chance that this couldn't be worse. I was right, but I know others that have been really, really wrong.

I teach them to respect others, and I also teach them - particularly my daughters - to push back against the idea that the proof of how worthy and loveable they are as a person is whether someone will fuck them or marry them. It's not true of all young mother, but way too many of us - including me - started young because we wanted to be loved, that love would fix something in us, and a relationship - intimate or parental - is evidence that someone loves us. The latter two aren't true and caring for a child makes figuring all that out harder. I wouldn't trade my kids and those experiences for anything, not even my youthful health back, but damn do I wish younger-me could have had people who taught and cared for me better, who gave me something other than that family image of adult happiness with those who said I'd never get it because of who I am. My children don't have that weight, but there are other social messages they get that cloud their options from time to time. I try to teach them to see beyond that as best they can, telling my teenagers who they are now is not who they're going to be in ten years and few know in their teens who they'll be later, but they're taking steps towards it one way or another.

Her friends are dicks.

However, "Research has shown that teenage pregnancy is associated with poorer outcomes for both young parents and their children. Teenage mothers are less likely to finish their education, are more likely to bring up their child alone and in poverty, and have a higher risk of mental health problems than older mothers. Infant mortality rates are 60% higher for babies born to teenage mothers. As children they have an increased risk of living in poverty and are more likely to have accidents and behavioural problems." (from Nuffield Trust)

and

"New analysis of the Millennium Cohort (MC) survey finds that teenage mothers were over three times more likely to be poor than mothers in their 30s, the odds of a low birth weight baby was 40 per cent higher for a teenage conception, teenage mothers were 50 per cent more likely to be depressed and 100 per cent less likely to breastfeed. We also know that teenage mothers are less likely to complete their education and more likely to be out of employment and to live in poverty. The children of teenage mothers are more likely to experience these disadvantages and twice as likely to become teenage parents in their turn." (from Joseph Rowntree Foundation)

Personally, I grew enormously from 16 to 26. It was a decade of real discovery, both of myself and of the world: travel, education, friends, love, etc. Missing that would have made me a far different person, and I suspect a far less happy one.

100% less likely to breastfeed. 100%?? That can’t be right, surly?

I will add I also know of several teen mums who have done very well for themselves but many of them have a supportive family around them and that helps
Your sister wants and obviously loves her baby and has a supportive family around her, so she needs to ignore other shallow minded people and just enjoy her little one

@Nancydrawn

Her friends are dicks.

However, "Research has shown that teenage pregnancy is associated with poorer outcomes for both young parents and their children. Teenage mothers are less likely to finish their education, are more likely to bring up their child alone and in poverty, and have a higher risk of mental health problems than older mothers. Infant mortality rates are 60% higher for babies born to teenage mothers. As children they have an increased risk of living in poverty and are more likely to have accidents and behavioural problems." (from Nuffield Trust)

and

"New analysis of the Millennium Cohort (MC) survey finds that teenage mothers were over three times more likely to be poor than mothers in their 30s, the odds of a low birth weight baby was 40 per cent higher for a teenage conception, teenage mothers were 50 per cent more likely to be depressed and 100 per cent less likely to breastfeed. We also know that teenage mothers are less likely to complete their education and more likely to be out of employment and to live in poverty. The children of teenage mothers are more likely to experience these disadvantages and twice as likely to become teenage parents in their turn." (from Joseph Rowntree Foundation)

Personally, I grew enormously from 16 to 26. It was a decade of real discovery, both of myself and of the world: travel, education, friends, love, etc. Missing that would have made me a far different person, and I suspect a far less happy one.

Conversely, my friend had children from 17-30 and has a degree , a business and a very happy marriage.

I am pushing the same milestone age with a chin of dickhead men and all the travelling in the world (which I did) didn't make me as happy as she is. I'd love her life.

Horses for courses.

How does it make someone a slut?? Bizarre.

IMO, which I accept isn’t going to be everyone’s opinion, I think being a teen is too young. I’d rather wait, live life a bit first, explore options. I’d be worried that a young girl been coerced into sex, which is probably naive of me, I’m sure some teen mums were desperate for a baby, in fact, I’ve known a couple over the years who did just desperately want to be mums, maybe not for the right reasons, but hey, each to their own.

A big worry, bar a possible lack of emotional maturity, would be how the teen is going to provide for the baby, both financially and practically.

As a teen mum myself (I had my dd at nearly 18, she's 18 herself now) it's disappointing to read so many of the negative views on this post. I thought the world had moved on from stigmatising young mums in this way. Some of the comments and stereotypes would be seen as unacceptable if they referred to someone older, with everyone saying no one deserves an opinion on the pregnancy other than the pregnant woman herself.

The comments from her so called friends out-stands me and by going no contact with them I don't think she would be loosing out on anything. As others have said interesting the dad hasn't experienced the same.

For those saying you would be mortified or heartbroken and from the way some posts have come across, even ashamed, all I can say is, I would have those feelings towards you if you were my mum. It implies the pregnancy is some sort of failure in life, which it's not. Life doesn't always go as we planned. I do however understand being concerned for your dd being a young mum, or your ds a young dad, as it means they can face some obstacles, but becoming a parent is challenging at any age. Any decent parent worries about their child's happiness and future.

However older mums don't have it plain sailing either and can face just as challenging times such as infertility, relationship breakdowns, pnd or mh issues or financial hardship etc when it comes to having children, the list is endless.

Just because you are a certain age doesn't lead to being a better parent or having a less challenging time or being better equipped to deal with a dc.

I feel there are benefits to being a younger parent just as there are to being older. There isn't a right way or a wrong way, just a different way.

Would I change things? No. I've got a beautiful, intelligent daughter who is doing so well, who I have the closest relationship with. I have all the 'normal' expectations in life - lovely family and friends, good education, always worked and a decent job, car, own home and a long term relationship and both dd and I are very happy with our lot!

I imagine a lot of those statistics are also tied up in social background and other factors rather than being solely down to age? A lot of the people I know who became teen parents were from poorer/deprived backgrounds already, less value on education etc.

I think you are putting together two unrelated ideas OP.

1. is teen pregnancy a good idea and 2) should you bully people online. The first question is irrelevant, the issue here is that people are bullying your sister online. They could have chosen any reason to do it. Society's attitudes towards teen mums being different wouldn't have stopped them, they would have just chosen another topic like looks, made up rumours, intelligence, anything.

My sister was 15 when she had her first, she got a lot of shit for it as well (as did us siblings - I was once spat on) but she was the most amazing teen mum ever. You could not fault her.

Teen mums will always get shit thrown at them, sadly its just one of those things. As long as she's a good mum.. she gets the last laugh..

@ciderfromalemon

I imagine a lot of those statistics are also tied up in social background and other factors rather than being solely down to age? A lot of the people I know who became teen parents were from poorer/deprived backgrounds already, less value on education etc.

Of course. And there are many exceptions to the rule, as indicated by the very happy anecdotes on this thread. That said, it creates serious structural problems and requires remarkable resources (be they personal, financial, or familial) in order to overcome them.

I have huge respect for those who have made this situation work. But the reality is that is is a struggle for many.

Disgusting they’re calling her a slut. I can’t imagine any of my daughters teen friends having babies, you’re starting life on a back foot. Those posters who are saying they’re doing well now after a teen pregnancy are in the minority,

@veganmegan

I'm curious to know if opinions change based on marriage or other security? E.g. if someone gets married at 18 and has a child the same year is that less naive / "disappointing" than an unwed parent? Does a planned vs accidental pregnancy change anyone's viewpoint, or is it all down to age?

Nope, I would want my DD getting married at 17 even less than I would want her pregnant!

It’s too young, you don’t have any life experience or maturity, you’re in a financially precarious situation, and you’ve likely fucked up your education and career prospects, unless either your parents take on the child care, or you have a significantly older DP who can pay the nursery fees while you’re at uni. You are also tied to your teenage boyfriend for life, which I would definitely not have wanted!

It’s nothing to do with “being a slut” (and generally the girls I knew who got pregnant at 16 were not the slutty ones, it was the “we’re in true love” ones).

To all those people saying it's not ok... And that young mums miss out on so much and life is harder. Note that many of the young mums here show that's very often not the case. I was a v young mum just out of teens.

Having a baby while at university was an advantage. My lifelong friends I met during that time were other young student parents. Most of us got firsts. Our main advantage over other students was having a routine and an early start each day! That discipline has served us well in successful careers. And then while others wait to start families in their late 30s or early 40s, we are empty nesters. Well, in my case I had babies at both ends and the difference in energy levels was huge. Having a baby young is not a disaster. With hindsight or better luck I would have had all of mine earlier.

Look it's not ideal to have a baby as a teen. It's not ideal either in your 40s. But would you say it is not OK to have a baby in your 40s? No, because saying so is unhelpful judgement and prejudice. Well, same goes for teen mums.

Well it’s a thin line isn’t it?
On one hand we want to discourage our daughters from becoming teen parents, but on the other we don’t want them to repeat that to others?

Not that I would call any teen a ‘slag’ for becoming a parent.

Intimately what your asking is if parents teach their kids about bullying, which is what your sister is getting, these people love to feel superior to others and kick them where they think it hurts.

New mums are often quite insure and finding their feet, so they are easy targets for bullies.

A teen in year 9 is currently expecting, she’s just 13 years old and her life is about to get incredibly hard. It’s a shame, I have no idea of the circumstances, nor do I need to know but I really pity her, and her family.

They will need an awful lot of support.

My children have spoken about her compassionately. How their friends have reacted I have no idea.

@sessell

To all those people saying it's not ok... And that young mums miss out on so much and life is harder. Note that many of the young mums here show that's very often not the case. I was a v young mum just out of teens.

Having a baby while at university was an advantage. My lifelong friends I met during that time were other young student parents. Most of us got firsts. Our main advantage over other students was having a routine and an early start each day! That discipline has served us well in successful careers. And then while others wait to start families in their late 30s or early 40s, we are empty nesters. Well, in my case I had babies at both ends and the difference in energy levels was huge. Having a baby young is not a disaster. With hindsight or better luck I would have had all of mine earlier.

Look it's not ideal to have a baby as a teen. It's not ideal either in your 40s. But would you say it is not OK to have a baby in your 40s? No, because saying so is unhelpful judgement and prejudice. Well, same goes for teen mums.

Having a baby in your 40s as a likely independent and financially secure adult is a world away from having a baby while most likely living with your parents and having no real income.

@HibernatingTill2030, true , but a quick scroll through the threads will show that what some of that demographic have in finance they have lost elsewhere.

@CJsGoldfish - Yes, fine, but you are still not acknowledging the OP's point about rape, oddly
Rape is a separate issue. Nothing to do with careless teenagers so, rather than not acknowledging the point, I don't see the relevance.
But, I will say that I would never, ever, ever expect, or want, a teenager to be encouraged to have a baby conceived of rape. That's pretty fucked up I think.

It is also worth remembering that the human brain doesn't finish developing until about the age of 25.
This article is one of many highlighting the amount of time it takes to develop the more rational part of the brain.

www.urmc.rochester.edu/encyclopedia/content.aspx?ContentTypeID=1&ContentID=3051

[quote CJsGoldfish]**@CJsGoldfish - Yes, fine, but you are still not acknowledging the OP's point about rape, oddly
Rape is a separate issue. Nothing to do with careless teenagers so, rather than not acknowledging the point, I don't see the relevance.
But, I will say that I would never, ever, ever expect, or want, a teenager to be encouraged to have a baby conceived of rape. That's pretty fucked up I think.[/quote]
OP didn't say that

She was just reminding you it's not always black an white as you painted.

I got pregnant at 17, in the ‘80s, in Ireland. My mum at the time wanted to send me off to the nuns and get baby adopted. I was always a bit stubborn though :)
I did marry the father of my son a few years later, and had a 2nd. I went back to uni when the youngest started school and got an IT degree. Many years later both are grown up, happy and also work in IT. I used my job to travel and now live abroad doing a very demanding but enjoyable job. The ONLY thing I regret is marrying their father under social pressure. Didn’t last. My children are a joy and the best thing I ever did. All my ‘friends’ judged, gossiped and melted away. Ive had a few who try and contact me on Facebook as I now live in a ‘holiday destination’. Your sister will find better friends and it sounds like she has a lovely supportive family. The rest can get to fuck 😊

Sorry stepped a way for a bit, but back and have read all the posts! @Wheresmykimchi absolutely no worries for derailing

But even if you do get accidentally pregnant, you absolutely, categorically do not have to go ahead with the pregnancy. Many (all?) of your posts seem to be pointedly ignoring this.

There are various reasons to avoid an abortion (religion being one, emotions and connection to a foetus being another). Nobody should be forced into an abortion. I'm not in a perfectly ample situation to have a child right now, but if I became pregnant it is most likely I would keep the baby and work towards a better life as that's what I feel is best for me and the hypothetical child. I'm very much pro-choice, and I think abortions should be accessible to all women who need them, but that involves choice on the part of the mother.

Saying "Oh, they can just have an abortion" is too flippant and doesn't take into account all circumstances.

Abortion comes with longer term mental health issues that no-one can predict, let alone the teen themselves. Some will brush it off, say best decision for them, others won't realise implications until later.

It isn't an easy decision and should never, ever be described that "just have an abortion" as a solution. I am 100% pro-choice, but I know from experience that it is a difficult choice, not for all, but comes with consequences - even when it is the right decision.

Good job their former friends then. She'll find out her real friends and karma will get them that mock her..
I was a teen mum, my kids are brilliant well behaved children and not louts out smoking, drinking or taking drugs and I live in a council estate. These girls that make fun of your sister are in for a rude awakening honestly.

Abortion comes with longer term mental health issues that no-one can predict, let alone the teen themselves. Some will brush it off, say best decision for them, others won't realise implications until later.

I agree, it's a huge choice and there are costs to having an abortion (as there are costs to having a child). It should always be up to the pregnant woman, she's the one who will need to live with the choice and potentially get support. There should never be obligation on either side of the fence.