To think it's OK to be a teen mum?

[veganmegan]

NC. I rarely start threads on here but I have a question (hope that's OK). My little sister is seventeen and she welcomed into the world a lovely little boy in November. Since announcing his birth on social media, she received a handful of messages from former "friends" saying "Always knew you were a slag, you'll never get a proper job now, do you even know who the father is" (or words to that effect).

So really fucking abusive bullying behaviour. They also said something about her now having to move to a council estate (?) and about "babies shouldn't have babies" (which I guarantee is just a direct quote from someone's judgemental parent).

They're also teenagers so I'm not necessarily holding it entirely against them (as you say all sorts of silly stuff when you're young) but given they're pretty middle class kids who I don't think have even met someone from a council estate, or a teen mum other than my sis, I'm wondering where all of these preconceived stereotypes come from.

She's decided to block them now after my convincing so hopefully there won't be any more online bullying, but I'm wondering who thinks these things? Where does this idea come from? Is this an idea you instil in your own kids, if you're a parent?

I just really feel for her if I'm honest. She's so happy to have her wee baby, but people continuously perceive her as a "slag" solely because she had a baby young. I don't even really know how to support her, just really pisses me off and simultaneously upsets me on her behalf.

I think if the baby is wanted, loved and looked after there is no problem. Someone I worked with had a baby very young. The baby is now grown up. The mum said it was lovely as they grew up and learnt together. I always liked that. Best of luck to your sister.

I think people need to remember people post in all sort of guises on here and the OP could well be the mother.

So far I'm an undercover Daily Mail reporter and a teen mother. What theories will pop up next?

@veganmegan

NC. I rarely start threads on here but I have a question (hope that's OK). My little sister is seventeen and she welcomed into the world a lovely little boy in November. Since announcing his birth on social media, she received a handful of messages from former "friends" saying "Always knew you were a slag, you'll never get a proper job now, do you even know who the father is" (or words to that effect).

So really fucking abusive bullying behaviour. They also said something about her now having to move to a council estate (?) and about "babies shouldn't have babies" (which I guarantee is just a direct quote from someone's judgemental parent).

They're also teenagers so I'm not necessarily holding it entirely against them (as you say all sorts of silly stuff when you're young) but given they're pretty middle class kids who I don't think have even met someone from a council estate, or a teen mum other than my sis, I'm wondering where all of these preconceived stereotypes come from.

She's decided to block them now after my convincing so hopefully there won't be any more online bullying, but I'm wondering who thinks these things? Where does this idea come from? Is this an idea you instil in your own kids, if you're a parent?

I just really feel for her if I'm honest. She's so happy to have her wee baby, but people continuously perceive her as a "slag" solely because she had a baby young. I don't even really know how to support her, just really pisses me off and simultaneously upsets me on her behalf.

I had my daughter at 16& wouldn't of had it any other way. I'm now 22 & also have a 1 year old. If I was 30/40 having my first I don't think it would of been the same. I want to be able to run around with them, make the most out of their childhood,doing all the fun things like getting on rollercoasters ect. Not having to worry that Iv pulled my back out😂. As for the 'friends' calling her a slag it's disgusting behaviour. I'd prefer to be at home making memories with my children than partying, taking drugs, having 1 night stands which most likely result in an abortion- many people I knew at 16 were doing this at the time. When these people have their own children they will realise how wrong they were to say such hurtful& childish things. Congratulations on becoming the fun auntie!!🥳 🎉

Ok perhaps the thread has moved on, but you ask a couple of times on the first pages for folk who say it's not really ok to elaborate on why they think that.

I think it's pretty much answered by yourself also on those first pages where you describe how awful some of her peers have been to her, and then say - ''They're also teenagers so I'm not necessarily holding it entirely against them (as you say all sorts of silly stuff when you're young)'' - well exactly. When you're 17, you're barely mature yourself. You do and say silly stuff, because you're basically a kid yourself whose own brain is still maturing. You've little life experience, a teenager's impulse control. You're not an adult and can't actually be expected to always behave like one.

And there you go. That's not an ideal person to be a parent, to have that level of responsibility. You aren't mature enough at 17 to make what would be your best job of it. We all owe our children the best and to take on the role of parenting, caring, teaching, providing the core example when you're barely out of childhood yourself is a second-best option. Even if you end up being a loving parent and doing an ok job. It would be better for her baby if she were older and more experienced and actually an adult herself. It would be better for her if she had been allowed to go through those stages of development as herself, without the responsibility of parenting changing absolutely everything about those vital years.

Not a terrible disaster and the 'friends' comments are utterly awful and ridiculous. But it would still have been better for everyone to not become a parent at 17.

- well exactly. When you're 17, you're barely mature yourself. You do and say silly stuff, because you're basically a kid yourself whose own brain is still maturing. You've little life experience, a teenager's impulse control. You're not an adult and can't actually be expected to always behave like one.

I see what you mean, but in that context I think most teenagers wouldn't have behaved that way. My DSis has received a few kind comments too, on and off social media (namely from people who are a bit more mentally grown up and not out for blood, if that makes sense). E.g. Someone she went to school with came up to her and congratulated her when we were in Tesco the other day.

Maybe "when you're young" is the wrong turn of phrase, maybe I should have said "when you're immature". I don't think age and maturity always go together, I've met a lot of very immature adults but nobody questioned their right to parent or suggested abortion, IYSWIM?

You don't have to want it for your child, and I think as a parent you have an obligation to educate your child about the risks of sex (as well as the proper precautions) without being devastated if a mistake happens. Once your child is pregnant (and intending on continuing the pregnancy) there is the capacity to help them or judge them, and anticipating the worst becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy IMO.

@veganmegan are you being deliberately obtuse about why women might not want that for their daughters?

• what is the combined income of your sister and her partner?

-can they afford to live independently (ie not with parents or family or in a council house or other accommodation partially or fully government funded?) where are they living now?

• how long have they been in a relationship - is it stable?
• can they afford to purchase themselves all major items the baby needs (I know some will be presents)
• do they have an education to allow them to get better jobs in the future to support bringing up their child?
• has your sister had the opportunity to travel, meet people and expand her education and would you not want that for her?

She has plenty - years - of time to get pregnant and if she did so without the above sorted then it’s not ideal and not what any mother would want for their child.

because at 17, you are still a child yourself. that is why I would be disappointed.

@veganmegan

I think people need to remember people post in all sort of guises on here and the OP could well be the mother.

So far I'm an undercover Daily Mail reporter and a teen mother. What theories will pop up next?

OP, you misunderstand. I've been massively supportive of you on this thread. Im reminding people to watch their words and be kind.

are you being deliberately obtuse about why women might not want that for their daughters?

I have repeatedly stated I understand why someone may not specifically want that lifepath for their child, my point is that you should support and treat teen parents with respect even if you don't agree with the decision to have children (or avoid an abortion). Many people don't do that.

I'll answer your questions though.

what is the combined income of your sister and her partner?

I have no idea, I wouldn't ask them that. If I had to hazard a guess, with the two of their incomes combined I think they'd be making around 30k which would be liveable (if uncomfortable).

can they afford to live independently (ie not with parents or family or in a council house or other accommodation partially or fully government funded?) where are they living now?

They live with my parents at the moment, she's taken some time off work to focus on her son and her college work. AFAIK they're trying to start renting sometime next year but my mum was happy to let them stay and didn't want to kick them out with a newborn. They're also paying for all baby supplies themselves (and to be fair my sister wouldn't be moving out this year anyway, irrespective of baby).

how long have they been in a relationship - is it stable?

They have been together about a year and a half. In terms of stability it has it's ups and downs like all relationships, but they're not reckless. I think having the baby has made them realise they can't fuck about with any drama like their friends can.

can they afford to purchase themselves all major items the baby needs (I know some will be presents)

Yes, they're buying everything the baby needs (a few exceptions being big items like a carseat that you can't buy secondhand, those were bought by other family members as a present).

do they have an education to allow them to get better jobs in the future to support bringing up their child?

She is currently doing a college degree so it will help her get into her university of choice.

has your sister had the opportunity to travel, meet people and expand her education and would you not want that for her?

Meeting people, yes. Expanding her education, yes she's doing that now. Travelling not yet, but if she decided she wanted to travel in the future I'm sure she could figure it out.

OP, you misunderstand. I've been massively supportive of you on this thread.
Im reminding people to watch their words and be kind.

I know, I know sorry it wasn't meant to be aggressive!
I was just poking fun at the many lives I (supposedly) lead
No snarkiness meant to you at all!

leroi98 your post is so sad. We’re your options really so narrow at 16 that it was either have a baby or party and take drugs?

What about school, university, an apprenticeship? At 16 I was studying for a levels, picking universities, spending time with friends etc. No drugs, no sex, but loads of fun. University was an exciting time, I spent a year working abroad.

Do your really believe that 30 Year old mothers will pull Their backs out lifting a child?

I fell pregnant with my child at 18 after switching from one contraception to another after being told by the dr that extra precautions weren’t needed for a period of time until the new one began working.
I’d always planned on going to university but didn’t want my unplanned pregnancy to mean that family members had to change what they were doing to provide childcare. He’s 8 now and I have a job during school hours and am studying my degree online when he sleeps. My family definitely would have preferred I had waited but were never embarrassed or ashamed. I lost a lot of friends when my priorities changed and I no longer wanted to go out and drink or party but I made new friendships with people who were in the same new stage of life as myself and learnt which old friends would be there for more than a night out or a drink.
Teenage pregnancy doesn’t end someone’s life, it may just mean it takes longer or a different route to achieve what was wanted.

@veganmegan

*OP, you misunderstand. I've been massively supportive of you on this thread. Im reminding people to watch their words and be kind.*

I know, I know sorry it wasn't meant to be aggressive!
I was just poking fun at the many lives I (supposedly) lead
No snarkiness meant to you at all!

You're a busy lady !

You're a busy lady!

Oh I know, where on Earth do I find the time...?

@veganmegan

You're a busy lady!

Oh I know, where on Earth do I find the time...?

I just think people lose sight of it being real people's lives.

I just think people lose sight of it being real people's lives.

I hear that. I've definitely held views that have completely changed once I was in that situation personally - I think in some contexts it's quite tricky to know where you stand in a practical issue based on a theoretical perspective.

But also some people are just not empathetic or kind!

Tell your sister this. I was a teenage mother, left school with five o levels.

I retired, as a senior civil servant, on a pension based on my end of service salary. My second in command was also a single parent, who had her child as a teenager.

I own a large three bedroomed house, where DD, her partner all live happily.

Having a child that young has many benefits. I had energy enough to work full time and care for her ( though child minding costs meant I pretty much loved hand to mouth) and when she was a teenager, my teenage years were not that long ago, so I ( hope) I helped her cope with those traumatic years.

Having this child may well be the making of her, it was for me

Havent rtft but having been a single teen mom myself I've constantly received judgement from others.
It was hard and imho I do think I would of been a better mother if i had been older but it is what it is.
All you can do is raise you dc to be kind to everyone and realise everyone has different priorities in life and your real friends will celebrate your achievements with you not put you down.

It would be very few people's preference.

I would say yes. I was taught that teenage pregnancy was the worst possible ever outcome. Now I'm 25 they're always pestering about when I'll have kids.

So yes it's something people are taught.

My parents had me at 17. I had a modest but happy upbringing - e.g. no luxuries or foreign holidays, but I never lacked for anything I genuinely needed and we owned our own home (my dad worked very hard and they were a lot cheaper in those days!). My parents both gained degrees in their early thirties and retired as professionals with very healthy salaries and now get to do the things they couldn't when younger and raising a family.

I didn't suffer academically for having young parents (in fact got the best results in my school) and went on to gain a postgraduate degree and a professional job.

I was always very determined not to have children young, but after a difficult divorce and then failing to meet anyone else, I never had the opportunity to have children and am now too old. Given the choice, would I swap and do it the way my parents did? Perhaps. I now also get to benefit from having very young parents for my age.

Also do think it's a class thing, DP and I have been together 7 years since we were 18 and we're not planning on getting married until we're 30ish as it would be embarrassing

It’s ok in the sense we all have free will, and I’m sure many teen mums are very good loving mothers. But, it’s not what I’d want for my child.

Online bullying is never ok, your sis was right to block them.

It's absolutely ok to be a teen mum.

I would never presume to think I am a better mother than another woman based on age.

I haven't read the whole thread but I expect everyone is talking about money and stability.

That doesn't make a good mother.

Of course a well supported mother will be happier and their child will be more likely to have favourable outcomes but that could be a 17yo. Why not?

I have worked with children who became mothers in their mid/late teens. They're incredible.

@CorianderBee in which class is it embarrassing to get married before 30?!