To think it's OK to be a teen mum?

[veganmegan]

NC. I rarely start threads on here but I have a question (hope that's OK). My little sister is seventeen and she welcomed into the world a lovely little boy in November. Since announcing his birth on social media, she received a handful of messages from former "friends" saying "Always knew you were a slag, you'll never get a proper job now, do you even know who the father is" (or words to that effect).

So really fucking abusive bullying behaviour. They also said something about her now having to move to a council estate (?) and about "babies shouldn't have babies" (which I guarantee is just a direct quote from someone's judgemental parent).

They're also teenagers so I'm not necessarily holding it entirely against them (as you say all sorts of silly stuff when you're young) but given they're pretty middle class kids who I don't think have even met someone from a council estate, or a teen mum other than my sis, I'm wondering where all of these preconceived stereotypes come from.

She's decided to block them now after my convincing so hopefully there won't be any more online bullying, but I'm wondering who thinks these things? Where does this idea come from? Is this an idea you instil in your own kids, if you're a parent?

I just really feel for her if I'm honest. She's so happy to have her wee baby, but people continuously perceive her as a "slag" solely because she had a baby young. I don't even really know how to support her, just really pisses me off and simultaneously upsets me on her behalf.

I had my son at 17 (looked 12) he’s now 36 married, has 3 gorgeous daughters, owns his own house and owns his own business, not bad for a kid brought up on a council estate, it’s what happens inside the home that really matters not where it is

Name changed for this one.
I worked for a now closed special school which provided a specialised education for young mothers and pregnant teens. Often the transfer was instigated by the school to avoid any disruption to the A-level middle class Dad’s studies. Also to avoid any spotlight on Y13 pupils impregnating Y8 and Y9 girls.
We were able to offer education until GCSE alongside a nursery place, parent craft, PSHE classes etc. The council was working diligently to try and close our little centre.
When it worked well it was brilliant - girls who had been predicted E, U grades at their regular school achieved C, B grades in the same subjects.
Often the young mums were taken into care with their baby, and were themselves the children of teenage mothers . The cycle was perpetuated. You often saw girls from the same family - sisters, cousins, aunts. Poverty, lack of opportunities was intergenerational. Young girls (14 and under) were pregnant to much older men with no emphasis on the abusive nature of these ‘relationships’. Some ( not all) of the girls often struggled enormously to bond with their babies and provide emotional warmth and attachment to them. We had lessons around looking at your baby, picking baby up when baby cries, not looking at phone when baby is trying to make eye contact etc. This stemmed from a variety of reasons - their own families of origin and the parenting they received but also their age and maturity.
When things worked out well for the mum abs baby it was usually down to a very strong maternal support network, a (maternal) granny making financial and work sacrifices to support mum and new baby.
OP, as supportive as you are of your sister you make no reference to any impact on the wider family - my experience has been often younger siblings missed out in terms of time and resources (anecdotal obviously, small sample). I wonder what you thoughts are on the impact on the wider family.

Tbh I was 20 when I was pregnant with ds and had him at 21, I was far too young at the time and the relationship itself broke down because we weren't mature at the time.I ended up being a single mother until I met dh aged 23 and had next dc at 27 which I think was the right age. I cant imagine having a child at 17, most ive known have really struggled in the early years and I would be devasted if dd ended up pregnant at that age or young like I did as I know first hand how hard it was but I to experience that part of my life of being independent and not being responsible for another person. I certainly wouldn't call someone because of it but I would feel sad for their struggle ahead of them.

No indeed you can’t compare 26 to 16/17. That’s why the “they used to have children younger argument falls a bit flat. They really didn’t. Even in 1930s only 20% had children under 20 years of age. Well over 60% were over 25 years old.

Teenage mothers are less likely to finish their education, are more likely to bring up their child alone and in poverty, and have a higher risk of mental health problems than older mothers. Infant mortality rates are 60% higher for babies born to teenage mothers. As children they have an increased risk of living in poverty and are more likely to have accidents and behavioural problems. So, no, it’s not a good idea and not OK.

My son is 17 and I wouldn’t want him to be a dad at 17 because he is just not mature enough. Would i support them? A million percent.

My dd is nearly 10. Has just done sex education in school and I bought her an age appropriate book which she read and asked me some questions about. I told her that babies should ideally come when married but it doesn’t always work out like that ( for me too! ) but if she was ever in this situation in the future I would be there for her.

Of the 2 teenage mums who were in my secondary school, both pregnant at 16. One has married the father and had 2 more children and they seem to have a lovely life.
The other split up from the father within the first year and the baby had serious disabilities.
She is now a single mum of 3 and her dd is around 25 and requires lots of help and support. I’m unsure how her other relationships fared but she does have a good job and own home.

It’s not the end of the world.

We had our first at 17 and she was the absolute making of us. We both still say today that neither of us would have bothered with uni or had big aspirations if it wasn’t for her. Kids can be a hinderance sometimes but they’re also the biggest motivators.

I don't believe being a teenage parent is a good thing.

But its not good to bully a teenage parent either.

I'd keep my opinions to myself

Since announcing his birth on social media, she received a handful of messages from former "friends" hmm saying "Always knew you were a slag, you'll never get a proper job now, do you even know who the father is" (or words to that effect).

Charming... I'm glad she's blocked those people. I can't imagine posting something like that on a public forum. How embarrassing for them!

OP, I think you have a point. I would not want this for my daughter, but that is because I want her to finish her education and get herself set up before she has such a huge responsibility. Technically a teen mum can still finish her education and set up a nice life for her and her children, it's just harder. I certainly don't think she's ruined her life, would automatically be a bad mum, be condemned to a life of poverty, or any other nonsense that people spout. Life throws us all sorts of challenges. You just get what you're given and roll with as best as you can.

And as for the slag thing? Ha. Funny how it's only the females who are "wrong" here. I suppose they're going around getting themselves pregnant...

By age 17 I had already been sexually active for 2 years. I'm not unusual in that respect. I was lucky that I never had a contraception failure that led to pregnancy. If I had, I don't think I could have had an abortion. So I suppose there is a chance that I could have been a mum 10 years earlier than I actually was. I don't think it speaks much of someone's character either way, to be honest. It's just life 🤷‍♀️

I'm amazed and quite depressed at the attitude of a lot of posters here. We're not in the 1950s. I had mine at 35, 36 and 39 and your sister will have nearly 20 more years to be with her her child than I will, if you think about it. There are pros and cons to having babies as a younger or older woman. This young woman will have plenty of opportunity to build a.career at a later stage if she wants to. Congratulations to her x

@Member869894

I'm amazed and quite depressed at the attitude of a lot of posters here. We're not in the 1950s. I had mine at 35, 36 and 39 and your sister will have nearly 20 more years to be with her her child than I will, if you think about it. There are pros and cons to having babies as a younger or older woman. This young woman will have plenty of opportunity to build a.career at a later stage if she wants to. Congratulations to her x

Whether we’re in the 1950s or almost 2021 makes no difference to the up to date research that shows teenage motherhood to be overwhelmingly linked to poorer educational outcomes for mother and baby, poorer MH for the mother, and an increased likelihood of raising the child in poverty.

Plus I do find myself wondering what darker realities lie behind the PP’s cheery euphemistic account of her 17 year old sister ‘welcoming into the world a lovely little boy’ — an accidental pregnancy, presumably, with an expectation of immense amounts of financial and other self-sacrifice from the baby’s grandmother? I also find it ironic that the OP half-excuses the horrible reactions of her sister’s ‘friends’ on the grounds that they’re also teenagers and hence do stupid things, but can’t see that having a baby at seventeen is one of them.

Again I think it would be interesting to look closer at those statistics and how far social background plays a part.

The teenage parents I know of who came from more middle-class backgrounds (can only think of 2), were already doing a-levels and had the goal of university in mind when falling pregnant, they went on to complete their degrees. They already had those aspirations and had families who valued education so I don’t really know whether the odds were stacked against them.

Most of the teenage mothers I can think of definitely came from more disadvantaged backgrounds, where nobody in the family went to university or did further education and it wasn’t a plan anyway, baby or no baby.

Also the stat about teenage mums less likely to breastfeed, I’m pretty sure that’s tied up in social class and education factors, even when looking at older mums those defined as middle-class are more likely to breastfeed than working-class women. Since most teen mums are from working-class backgrounds this will be a factor.

It would say its okay, but it happens. I had my first at 17 and wish I was older but my daughter is 9 now and wouldn't change it for the world, shes a lovely, clever girl.

@Candlesticking how do you know that she needs financial support? A 17 year old can claim UC if they have a child.

@veganmegan
When I had my DC (although 14 years ago) there was a sign up in the GP surgery about support groups for young mums. Maybe she could check with her HV if there is something like this locally.

Not everyone has the luxury of being able to wait. Do we punish those who can't for their biology?

My great grandmother went through menopause at 25 and is said to have had what we now call POI, my grandmother had major fertility problems at the same age, it's really rare in my family for women to have biological children after 30. I was diagnosed with it at 28 (though 5 years later, it turned out to be a misdiagnosis which makes me curious about the rest of my family). There are a lot of adopted children among my aunt and female cousins.

Yes, it can add pressure to think of these things younger, especially if that's held up as the best you can do, but absolutely none of that, biologically or socially, makes it less risky for someone to go through pregnancy and parent as a teenager. There is no evidence that POI or any other reproductive disorder makes it safer to have a child as a teenager compared to the general population or that their biological development is going faster to compensate for the top of the fertility window being earlier than others. The body is still in development and pregnancy is a huge tax on it. Some get through great, but the higher risks - and those who get hurt by them - shouldn't be ignored whether or not a medical condition was involved just because the risks don't hurt everyone.

It's not punishment to recognize that it's much riskier even with atypical medical situations involved - biology isn't trying to punish us even if it feels that way and the pressure can have major consequences. I had a friend who had a similar medical and social to me and she died from pregnancy-related complications at barely 16. Her biology didn't punish her, her biology did all it could with a partially developed reproductive system and an overtaxed body. The only punishment I can see is from those who made it seem like a great and the only acceptable option.

I agree that abortion is a personal choice and should always be; however, all the evidence - physically and mentally - is that the costs are far far less for the vast majority compared to a pregnancy going to term, whatever the result of a pregnancy going to term is. While we cannot predict all outcomes, the two cannot really be compared when it comes to the risks involved and saying there are costs of both is disingenuous to the likely costs involved.

Look it's not ideal to have a baby as a teen. It's not ideal either in your 40s. But would you say it is not OK to have a baby in your 40s? No, because saying so is unhelpful judgement and prejudice. Well, same goes for teen mums.

I'd say having a child a in your 40s is riskier than in the late twenties, early thirties though it's not until the very late 40s that the risks become even close to being comparable to the teen years (over 45 is still less risky than under 20). People choose to take risks, the benefits may play our in their favour, recognizing there is a need to balance that isn't the same kind of value judgement as calling someone names or violence (I had both as a teen mother).

Risks aren't bad, some of the best things in life involve risk, but the research around the social circumstances that make teen pregnancy desirable to some shows more a society failing teenage girls in so many ways. All of us with great stories of it doesn't change that the most common contributing factors involve lack of resources, poor self image, and social pressure to either keep a pregnancy and/or for an idealized version of love that even when our relationships work, doesn't play out that way. We can't really compare that to 40somethings which generally involve life circumstances with no suitable relationship and/or career choices delaying the option.

@FluentlyExasperatedMadam

A month after my 16th birthday I became pregnant with my son. I'm now 33 and he is a lovely 16yr old young man who I'm proud to say is my son ❤

Exactly the same. From posts I read here I actually think I had a better time than some people.

Candlestick the depressing statistics about teenage.mums are about social.background, surely? I'm a single mum and the statistics on their children aren't great either but mine are all well, happy and balanced individuals. Having a baby as a teenager can be a delightful positive thing with the right support and background. Yes of course it has its challenges but it needn't be the end of the world and certainly not the heartbreaking disappointment that you would have it be.

I have known 3 people who had babies in their teens and all seem to be doing well.

If anything better than those who have waited till their mid 30s to conceive.

They had all completed their families by 25 and then have/had a clear 40 years of uninterrupted employment.
One went and did her degree and became a midwife, one started her own business and one climbed the corporate ladder starting at the bottom.

If I had my time again I think I would definitely look at having children in my teens. To me it makes more sense than waiting till you are in your 30s

Don't think there is a right or wrong age to have children, more concerning having children when much older, as might not be fully able bodied to care for.

At young ages I'd have concerns about the finance side of things, and would feel that for me personally a 17 year old would be missing out on things their peers are doing, such as travel, education, career etc.

But if she's happy and can support and raise a child then good for her.

Her friends are twats

I don’t think at 17 there is any missing out. You can still do al of these things, you are just not maybe doing it in a certain order.

There is a lot of missing out when you become a parent as a teen. Speaking as a teen mum.

Actually I’ll edit that to say “there is a lot of missing out when you become a mum as a teen.” Becoming a teen dad didn’t affect my ex in the slightest

@Oliversmumsarmy

I have known 3 people who had babies in their teens and all seem to be doing well.

If anything better than those who have waited till their mid 30s to conceive.

They had all completed their families by 25 and then have/had a clear 40 years of uninterrupted employment.
One went and did her degree and became a midwife, one started her own business and one climbed the corporate ladder starting at the bottom.

If I had my time again I think I would definitely look at having children in my teens. To me it makes more sense than waiting till you are in your 30s

I don’t know weather you are being serious or not with this post.

Just because you know of one of 2 people who became teen mums doesn’t mean we should be encouraging this and making out it’s wonderful and an easy task.

They’re many elements but a key observation I have noticed is background and your support network these things are usually needed especially to study something like midwifery or nursing. It’s long hours and you tend to have a lot of placements. Also you can’t work much so you would have little money as a student and being a teen mum to a baby.

I know of someone too who had a baby at 16 and she is now a high up social worker doing very well however I don’t think this is the case for the majority of teen mums tbh.

@Member869894

Candlestick the depressing statistics about teenage.mums are about social.background, surely? I'm a single mum and the statistics on their children aren't great either but mine are all well, happy and balanced individuals. Having a baby as a teenager can be a delightful positive thing with the right support and background. Yes of course it has its challenges but it needn't be the end of the world and certainly not the heartbreaking disappointment that you would have it be.

Yes social background is definitely a huge factor. If you look at the minority of teenage mothers from middle-class and more advantaged backgrounds then those statistics won’t be accurate at all.

Your sister's friends sound horrible and there is never any justification for that level of spite and nastiness.

However, becoming a parent at SUCH a young age, without completing your education, with no work experience behind you, no way of supporting the child, and very little chance of the relationship with the father being stable and long-lasting is a very, very poor choice and one I would be devastated if my own DD thought was a smart move.

Teenage mothers are far more likely to live in poverty. (Despite all the people who are no doubt on this thread saying that they had triplets at the age of 15 and went on to get a PhD from Oxford and a six figure salary in investment banking by the age of 22).