To think it's OK to be a teen mum?

[veganmegan]

NC. I rarely start threads on here but I have a question (hope that's OK). My little sister is seventeen and she welcomed into the world a lovely little boy in November. Since announcing his birth on social media, she received a handful of messages from former "friends" saying "Always knew you were a slag, you'll never get a proper job now, do you even know who the father is" (or words to that effect).

So really fucking abusive bullying behaviour. They also said something about her now having to move to a council estate (?) and about "babies shouldn't have babies" (which I guarantee is just a direct quote from someone's judgemental parent).

They're also teenagers so I'm not necessarily holding it entirely against them (as you say all sorts of silly stuff when you're young) but given they're pretty middle class kids who I don't think have even met someone from a council estate, or a teen mum other than my sis, I'm wondering where all of these preconceived stereotypes come from.

She's decided to block them now after my convincing so hopefully there won't be any more online bullying, but I'm wondering who thinks these things? Where does this idea come from? Is this an idea you instil in your own kids, if you're a parent?

I just really feel for her if I'm honest. She's so happy to have her wee baby, but people continuously perceive her as a "slag" solely because she had a baby young. I don't even really know how to support her, just really pisses me off and simultaneously upsets me on her behalf.

What is not OK is to be a feckless dad, teenage or otherwise, and have little or no support or involvement in your child's life.

Mind you, that is not just something only found in teenage young men.

I think when I was that age we were encouraged to negatively judge teenage mothers as a side effect of being encouraged to be aspirational. My sixth form really heavily pushed everyone into the university route. I remember my old chemistry partner had been offered full time at her part time job after her A levels and the teachers doing everything they could to discourage her and persuade her to apply for uni. Having a baby at 17 and staying in your home town didn't fit with the lifeplan expected of us.

In addition we all watched and laughed at TV like Jeremy Kyle and looked down on the people featured. When I was at uni I also remember many people talking about their old school bullies now being young unmarried parents and using words like slag, chav or 4 by 4. Being a teenage mum was seen as dysfunctional and irresponsible.

I agree with some previous posters that parents and teachers do try to put people off having kids young and sometimes this does involve being negative about those who have done so.

I haven't read through everyone replies yet.
People are judgmental as hell. Whether other teens, or other adults. Or those who find out later in life. People are just plain nasty.

My story - I was a high school dropout at 16. I worked full time in a supermarket and cleaning at a motel. Married at 17, DD1 at 18, DD2 at 20. I also lost a DS at 22. People judged me then - the comments about the wedding due to pregnancy (18 months is a hell of a long time lol). People judge me now when I share the story. People just like to judge.
This highschool dropout went on to earn 2 bachelors degrees in challenging double majors (studied extramurally around work and babies), several diplomas, 2 international professional certifications and by the time I was 34 was on over 80K/year with a home to live in, more than 1 car, and a rental property. Enough so that when I sustained a major injury and had to stop working I was ok.

I am proud to say I have raised 2 wonderful daughters, one of whom is already a success in her own right (incidentally she too has dropped out of school, however is doing better than her contemporaries at 21 now). The youngest still lives at home, and probably always will as SEN, but she has a varied and busy life too. I couldn't be more proud if I tried, of either of them.

To this day I get comments, sometimes even from people I've know for years. But sod them. Being a young or teen mum isn't always the worst thing. I couldn't have had them if I waited as it turns out. Most of the women I know who had kids young worked harder than the older mums, to show that they could do it, to prove to people and themselves that their age wasn't a barrier.

To your sister I say - way to go! You have done well to cut out the ones who call you names, act nasty. You keep the high road, don't let them get to you. They aren't in your shoes, its not their life, and you don't need them. You can, you will, be an awesome mum. :)

To support her? Just be there, be encouraging, let her learn/do things her way and let her know that you will be there if she needs a shoulder to lean on/an ear. Be her sister, and an amazing aunty. :)

I was a teen mother to my daughter, I absolutely adore her but in an ideal world I would have waited. I think if you have a good and supportive family it makes a big difference, I didn't do things have been more challenging for me, your sister sounds like she has a supportive family.

I was a teenage mum, all be it a couple of years older than your sister. If you are the sort of personality type who is mature and able to deal with situations as they arise Without a huge drama (I was and it sounds as if your sister is) then I think being a young mum has many positives. There are a lot of young people that age however who are still more or less children and for some of them it would not work out so well.

I have two dds, now 16 and 13, dd1 is super academic, has life plans than she feels she simply must achieve, she would not do well as a teenage mum. Dd2 is more relaxed, takes life as it comes and is more adaptable. She would actually be fine if it happened to her. I’d support either of them with any decision whatever, but I know dd1 would struggle, where as dd2 would just roll with it and I’m sure do a great job.

It’s an unpopular opinion here on mumsnet, but I think you’re better off having a baby in your late teens than you are post 40. I did not struggle at all with my dds, I loved every minute and had bags of energy, even with no sleep, to do things with them. Now they are teens and I feel we still have a lot in common as I’m still fairly young and we have such a good relationship. A lot of my friends now in their mid 30s have babies and they are so much more tired and stressed than I was 16 years ago. I can only imagine how much worse that must feel in another 5-10 if you have a baby post 40. My mum had her kids between 28 and 42 and she was a terrible mum. Really struggled with a late baby and having older kids.

Good luck to your sister and her little one, I hope they continue to thrive, I’m sure he will grow up to be a wonderful little boy. Ignore all the hate, which I know is easier said than done, but people like that aren’t worth giving any thought to.

I think a lot of people like to push their own views onto others. I wasn't a teen parent but I was 22 which is still young. The amount of people who come out with "well it's a shame now you won't be able to travel/build your career/have nights out" and all that. Not even crossing their minds that some people might not actually want to do any of those things. Just because you wanted to travel etc doesn't mean everyone does.

@veganmegan as you say your family are financially comfortable so can support your sister.
That's not the case for a lot of teenagers and having a baby without financial security or support would be very difficult. That would certainly have been the case for me and realistically I wouldn't have been able to go through with a pregnancy at that age.

I don't think it's ok. A teenager is still a child. A child raising a child? No that's not ok. I don't doubt anyone would want that for their own child, why is that? Your sisters friends were nasty to say that to her, but that just shows the immaturity at that age.

I've said yabu because I don't think its6great to be a teen mum. I had my first child mid twenties and looking back I still think I missed out on doing things first, having said that, having your children young means you are still young when they are old enough to not need you around all the time.

I do think your sisters "friends" were totally unreasonable though and I'd never call someone names for having a baby young. For many people it is the making of them.

I had three children at a very young age. I found myself alienated from family and isolated in a bad relationship. I got by. Just. They could have had a life that was so much better. Without question there are some huge advantages to having kids very young, but its hard. Teenagers are usually vulnerable which makes their children additionally vulnerable by default. I'm glad I had kids very young in hindsight, but also have some huge regrets about their upbringing.

It’s certainly not what I dream of for my DD. Then again, I’d also not like to see her in the same position as some of my friends now- late 30s, single, desperately want children and depressed because they feel that they’ve missed the chance.
I’m close to two teen mums. One has done really well, raised lovely children alone, studied for a degree and professional qualification. She was a very wild teen so I wonder what would’ve happened to her if she hadn’t had a child and calmed down. The other is still in the thick of it but has a stable relationship and both parents are juggling uni and childcare.
My only negative story is a woman I met recently (in her 40s) who was a teen mum. When asked what happened to the dad she said that he’d already cheated on her by the time of the birth so she’d decided not to let him be involved. It seemed a very immature attitude to deny her son a father based on their romantic relationship breaking down. Maybe she would’ve been equally spiteful aged 16 or 36 but he might’ve had the knowledge and resources to fight for access.
Good luck to your sister.

My Mum and Dad were 18 when my sister was born - we are now a family of 6, they both turn 60 next year. They were wonderful parents.

And as a side note have been amazing grandparents as they were in their 40s when the first one arrived!

It's not everyone's dream but being nasty about it like this is despicable.

So many foul people around. It's depressing.

Honestly, it’s not ideal. At 17, you're still figuring out who you are and what you want to be. Let’s face it, that could have been so many of us. I lost my virginity at 17. It could have been me. Contraception is never 100%.

Generation comes into play at one point I think it was the norm to have kids at 18.

In today’s society children don’t seem to be as well equipped to be having kids at 17/18.

My mother had me at 17 and my mum now has 3 DDs and a DS. All 3 DDs have said we wouldn’t of coped to have a child at 17... my younger sister admits she can’t even look after herself.

@JillofTrades

I don't think it's ok. A teenager is still a child. A child raising a child? No that's not ok. I don't doubt anyone would want that for their own child, why is that? Your sisters friends were nasty to say that to her, but that just shows the immaturity at that age.

I completely agree.

I would be very, very sad if my child had a child at 16.

The abuse your sister has received is absolutely unacceptable though, OP. I'm sure no one would condone that.

Sorry - meant "at 17"

I admit that I feel a twinge of sympathy when I see young mums pushing their babies around, looking totally knackered like we all did when we had babies.

I had my first child at 30 and, even then for the first couple of years, I felt we were slightly "missing out" on some group occasions and holidays as we were the first in our group of friends to have children. I really enjoyed the socialising part in my 20s so I would feel teenage mums are sacrificing this somewhat (albeit you can still go out with friends). I would feel the same if my teenage son told me that he was having a child.

However, I would absolutely not judge teenage pregnancy as a shameful thing. There's no right or wrong, different things suit different people.

My mum had my sister at it’s quite normal but if your sister wants to see an inspirational teen mum there’s one on YouTube it based 16 year old who’s done amazing calleditsjustKiera all one word I watch her and I’m way past the age of being a teen mum

@NYNY211

Generation comes into play at one point I think it was the norm to have kids at 18.

In today’s society children don’t seem to be as well equipped to be having kids at 17/18.

My mother had me at 17 and my mum now has 3 DDs and a DS. All 3 DDs have said we wouldn’t of coped to have a child at 17... my younger sister admits she can’t even look after herself.

Not actually the case. In 1958 the average age for a first child was 26.4 years.

Uppost someone said the norm for starting sex was 15/16. That isn’t the U.K. norm. It’s actually 18 years.

The trouble with everyone being OK with children having babies, with illegal sex and with teen mothers is the cost. I don’t mean financial cost (although that is very significant to society). I mean to the young mother and her children. They almost invariably underachieve and end up reinforcing a cycle of poverty and poor outcomes.

If we sell the idea it’s OK, then we place children at risk. It’s not OK but it happens. The less frequently it happens, the better for all. Those risks include an increased risk of infant mortality. Quite a high price to pay for everyone concerned.

I think the main difference is a few generations it was normal to have left school as a young teen and be working. An 18 year old with 5 years of work under their belt and, let's be honest, not as many options is going to be in a better position maturity wise to settle down and start a family than an 18 year today who is unlikely to have much life experience.

The friends are obnoxious snobs.

If they don’t even know anyone who lives in social housing they have fallen for a horrible stereotype.

It is true that statistically younger parenthood is linked to lower social-economic advantage. They seem to have conflated this with horrible misogynistic stuff like ‘slag’. But then shame has always been a powerful tool to keep we from sex and from pre-marital childbearing.

I would have been horrified had my 17 yo been a parent, but what’s the point in that? Once it is a reality the only thing to do is be happy for them if they are happy and ensure ongoing happiness and the ability to thrive by support and encouragement.

Young parents can and do make great parents, continue education, survive, thrive and progress.

I wish your sister and her child well.

Nancydrawn is right and has quoted the evidence. It is interesting that many people on this thread seem unaware of the realities and instead rely on anecdotal evidence. There will always be exceptions but in general teenage pregnancy results in poor outcomes for both mother and baby.
That said it is appalling that OP's sister has received abuse on social media, and I hope she and her baby prove to be exceptions.

@Yeahnahmum

A teen mom... gosh yes i would judge that. You throwing away so many things in life by being a mum so young. You are supposed to enter an age filled with fun and friends and late nights out and experiencing things/materials/stuff. So if i was 17 and my friend had a baby i would have surely called her out for it. Not calling her a slag but yeah id had some things to say for sure. Glad to hear baby is wanted though and the teenmum is happy about it. But blocking her friends won't do anything except for alienate herself. Society will judge her like her friends did. But friends can judge and still love you. And babysit 😉 .

Don't think anyone would be losing much by the loss of your friendship.

@CherryRoulade ok well I wasn’t talking about 1958 that far back!! You can’t compare 26 to 15/16.

I don’t think everyone thinks it’s ok at all. I have read quite a few comments that parents have said they wouldn’t be pleased. We live in very different times today.

I think @SnuggyBuggy theory is closer. Generations ago I think couples made it work and today it’s a lot more complex but that’s another thread..