To think that families who construct their lifestyle around two incomes are living very precariously?

[Circumlocutious]

I’m talking situations where the two incomes are absolutely essential to paying the mortgage and bills. A situation where there is no ‘give’, no flexibility: what if there is a chronic illness in the family, one person can no longer work, school closures (well, you’re seeing it now)? Isn’t this a precarious way to live?

I get that sometimes there may be no other choice, especially when saving up for mortgage. But often it seems like people’s lifestyle - the house they choose to buy, the size of their mortgage, the area they live in, their cars, the schools they pay to send their children to - have adapted to fit around two full incomes, even when they could have made different choices. Many people live fancy lifestyles with no room for error. They can’t scale back their spending without making major changes, eg moving house, which are harder to do once you’re used to your current lifestyle.

AIBU to say that more couples should aim to contain family spending to the level of one earning partner? Is this unrealistic?

2 income family here. Lucky to still be workin. Just v happy to have savings in the event of an uncertain future. Savings are so so important and will instill this in my kids as anyone in hospitality with savings must be thanking god

To add my brother works with dpd and had an ex pilot as a co worker last week. Now on 19k as opposed to a lot more as a pilot. Just happy to have a job,any job .soo tough on some industries. Living frugally in the case of a pandemic which occurs every 130 yrs is self protection at a scary level . No one could predict this

If you spend to the max each month and something goes wrong your in for a world of poo. Living with the thought of poo happening is not living. You should leave a bit of wriggle room and save a little each month. Rainy day fund or (shit money)

@Radyward

2 income family here. Lucky to still be workin. Just v happy to have savings in the event of an uncertain future. Savings are so so important and will instill this in my kids as anyone in hospitality with savings must be thanking god

This was instilled in me by my parents. We were always told 'if you don't have the money for it then don't buy it, never get into debt'. Unfortunately it can sometimes be a double edged sword. We've always put a percentage of our wages away every week since we got married. I'm now a SAHM and my husband works very long hours and we still put a bit of money away each week. We saved a lot when we first got married (before we had children) and managed to pay off our mortgage 10 years ago now which is a huge financial burden that we don't have to worry about BUT because we have savings we are never entitled to any help. Husband was laid off at the beginning of the pandemic, company wouldn't furlough, I don't work (SAHM) buy not entitled to anything because we had some savings. If we'd not bothered to save anything over the years we'd have been entitled to £275 a week on UC. I feel the country doesn't encourage people to save because you seem to get screwed every time if you have any money in the bank. I might be better keeping it under my mattress instead 🤔😉

There's also a huge difference between a family who need both incomes to make basic living standards because either both earn minimum wage, or live in an expensive area, or both and people like DH and I who have 2 incomes which are both above average household income. I would not expect a family who need every penny they earn to cover basic living to be able to plan in financial security for the future however if DH and I chose not to save, not to buy relevant insurances that would just be stupid.

I think it's virtually impossible to live in this country on a single minimum wage income as a family.

DH and I have constructed a life based on our combined income, however should the worst happen, we have sufficient savings and insurances that would allow us continue with a similar lifestyle for 6-12 months, time enough to get another job or downsize the property etc, depending on the circumstances.

@Almostslimjim

There's also a huge difference between a family who need both incomes to make basic living standards because either both earn minimum wage, or live in an expensive area, or both and people like DH and I who have 2 incomes which are both above average household income. I would not expect a family who need every penny they earn to cover basic living to be able to plan in financial security for the future however if DH and I chose not to save, not to buy relevant insurances that would just be stupid.

I think it's virtually impossible to live in this country on a single minimum wage income as a family.

DH and I have constructed a life based on our combined income, however should the worst happen, we have sufficient savings and insurances that would allow us continue with a similar lifestyle for 6-12 months, time enough to get another job or downsize the property etc, depending on the circumstances.

Nobody needs two incomes, it's a lifestyle choice. Change your lifestyle you can live on less, change it again and you can cope on even less. We could all need 2 incomes if we put ourselves in that position. Nothing wrong with choosing any lifestyle you wish.

Nobody needs two incomes, it's a lifestyle choice.

I really don't understand this. I think maybe you live in an area where housing is cheap? One income does not secure a mortgage where I am unless your income is really high. It's not really a simple choice.

It's the simplest choice ever, and personal to yourself.
I'm not saying it isn't a valid choice btw, just that saying we all need two incomes is just wrong.
I know many families where only one person works or they both work pt.
We have one small income, always have. Managed to pay a couple of mortgages now.
It's not what you earn but what you spend.

GypsyLee

Where do you live that you can afford a mortgage on one small income?

What if someone can't move to a cheaper area? Because of needing family support for example? Or because the wage earners job is location specific?

Do you qualify for any benefits? There is a small income band where you fail to qualify for benefits but the increased wage doesn't make up for it, so you are essentially penalised for earning more.

Ridiculous thread.

Try living in the SE on one income.

Is this some magical world where everyone can have a very well paid job, if they want one? This place seems to be mentioned in so many Mumsnet threads, as if those of us who have chosen lower paid (usually 'vocational') careers have somehow failed. It's a bit like telling those of us who live in expensive areas to move to a cheaper one. That's all very well, but you'd soon find large parts of the country with no essential workers! I'm a nurse, I'll never earn a lot and probably never buy a house as my DH doesn't have a high paid job either. But the country needs nurses (and care staff and TAs etc etc) everywhere so either I and my colleagues find richer partners or we move up north and the south east finds its hospitals without any staff!

I mean, it's a lovely idea OP but this isn't the 50s. Even on 2 incomes, many people are struggling.

@CatVsChristmasTree

It's called Utopia, where housing is cheap and working is a "lifestyle choice".

[quote AhNowTed]@CatVsChristmasTree

It's called Utopia, where housing is cheap and working is a "lifestyle choice".[/quote]
Utopia for those that follow the same philosophy.
Other people choose differently, there's no right or wrong.
Working and living in the south wouldn't fit our lifestyle choice, so we didn't do it. Could have done but thought meh, not for us.
It seems right for most other people though, each to their own.

@GypsyLee surely you appreciate that not everyone can live where it's cheap?

We live where there's jobs. And jobs for our children. Upping sticks isn't an option for the vast majority of people.

It's the simplest choice ever, and personal to yourself.
I'm not saying it isn't a valid choice btw, just that saying we all need two incomes is just wrong.
I know many families where only one person works or they both work pt.
We have one small income, always have. Managed to pay a couple of mortgages now.
It's not what you earn but what you spend.

No, still not getting this. We can't afford a mortgage on one income so whilst that's great for your friends, I am not sure what you would have me - and all my friends - do? Seems a bit idealistic to suggest only people who can afford a mortgage on one income should own a property, or stay living near-ish to where they grew up as I guess we could afford to buy on one income in some v. cheap parts of the country though if everyone moved there they'd not be cheap anymore. I can't understand what you mean by choice tbh.

@Lightsontbut

It's bullshit isn't it.

If only we'd all live within our means in a non-existent world where jobs are plentiful in cheap locations.

[quote AhNowTed]@GypsyLee surely you appreciate that not everyone can live where it's cheap?

We live where there's jobs. And jobs for our children. Upping sticks isn't an option for the vast majority of people.[/quote]
It wouldn't have been an option for us with a different lifestyle choice either.
We are all different, that's good.

[quote AhNowTed]@Lightsontbut

It's bullshit isn't it.

If only we'd all live within our means in a non-existent world where jobs are plentiful in cheap locations.[/quote]
It's not just that, it's that some people don't seem to understand that there are many low paid jobs that are essential for society to function and these jobs have to be done as much in expensive areas as they do in cheap ones.

Wages need to be high enough and housing costs low enough for a single person to support a family anywhere in the country.

I suppose that's what council housing was for. Before it was sold off. At least council housing meant you could have a secure tenancy and afford to pay the rent on a single low income.

@GypsyLee

You keep talking about a lifestyle choice.

If we all took that lifestyle choice there would be no vocational workers in London, and much of the SE.

Nothing would run.. tubes, trains, busses, hospitals, fire stations, schools...

@CatVsChristmasTree

I agree with you 100%.

[quote AhNowTed]@GypsyLee

You keep talking about a lifestyle choice.

If we all took that lifestyle choice there would be no vocational workers in London, and much of the SE.

Nothing would run.. tubes, trains, busses, hospitals, fire stations, schools...
[/quote]
Of course, I don't think anyone should have to do anything they don't want to.
We need all sorts of workers all over the country.
A choice we all have to make, whether we want to work, where we want to live, and how we want to live.
Nobody forces a gun to our heads and makes us do anything.

@GypsyLee

It depends on whether you want to live within your means or both work ft to provide a more luxurious lifestyle. Nothing wrong with either attitude.

So can you now see that 2 wages doesn't mean a "luxurious lifestyle", but merely means coping in a less affordable location?

OP, this is a good question. I don't understand why others are assuming you face no financial hardship because you are suggesting living in one salary.

The common answer to this question from financial advisers is: save 3-6 months of living expenses. Once you have this, you can feel more secure in living on both incomes. Sadly, for many saving 3-6 months of living expenses is extremely hard. Its not something I achieved for the first 9 years of my working life.

Ugh, no edit facility

So can you now see that 2 wages doesn't mean a "luxurious lifestyle", but merely means coping in a more affordable location?

Yanbu op. People are frothing over your post but I think it's quite clear you're not referring to those struggling to pay for basics on two salaries.

I know lots of people who have two decent jobs, a fabulous big house (with fabulous big mortgage!), expensive cars, expensive activities and for whom two salaries are essential to cover everything...if one lost their job they'd go from fabulous lifestyle to mortgage arrears pretty quickly and would be in a situation where they'd need to find something else paying £45k sharpish l- which is no mean feat at present.

I couldn't live with the stress to be honest. We could have got a bigger four bed house but we settled on a large 3 bed instead because it was much more affordable. We drive 5 year old cars, have no debt etc. We could financially commit to more but we don't because stretching yourself to the limit of both incomes (unnecessarily) is scary as fuck to me.

We're not quite at the 'one salary would cover us' level but we're as close as we can get...if one of us lost our job we're buffered enough that we could get 'any' job of a few hundred quid a month to see us through iyswim and not have to panic and find a job with £x income.

Seems completely sensible to me, if its within your possibilities.