Emotional abuse in Harry Potter

[MrsRogerLima]

Don't get me wrong, I love Harry Potter but I never thought about the Ron/Hermione thing this way before and she is SO RIGHT.

AIBU to think this is irresponsible in children's literature?

www.bustle.com/articles/198364-ron-hermiones-relationship-in-harry-potter-wasnt-just-disappointing-but-dangerous

@Yeahnahmum

You must be fun at parties op.. jeez. Give it a rest

These are the cliches people peddle when they can’t follow and are confused by the exchange of opinions.

Its fiction. It would be unbelievable and unbelievably boring if some characters weren't assholes in it.

Having said that I never really bought Hermione and Ron, I always thought she'd eventually realise what an ass he was.

Whenever I re read HP I only read books 1-4. The others all get a bit too teen angsty for me and need a good edit. I do love books 1-4 though.

I think analysing fiction like this is interesting. I think it's brilliant that there are groups of teens and older teens really thinking about books, characters, politics and philosophy.

I think rubbishing them ("your dds epq would be more interesting if she was a fan of jkr"!) is a bit pathetic. Yes, JKR got a lot of unwarranted hate, but that doesn't magically make her books above criticism.

Its fiction. It would be unbelievable and unbelievably boring if some characters weren't assholes in it.

It’s not about being an asshole though, the thread’s not about Voldy, the biggest arsehole.

Flowers In The Attic may have been atrociously written but it really wasn't children's or yp fiction.

Does every book now have to be written in 100 per cent PC?! You could pick apart any book, any! FFS this is so boring.

@Daydrambeliever

Flowers In The Attic may have been atrociously written but it really wasn't children's or yp fiction.

Wasn’t it. That is a relief you would have to be quite wrong in the head to write this for children. They did have it in my primary school library and I have seen the books in the children’s section so not everyone got that message.

@coldwaterfeed Voldemort was evil. Ron (and the others at times) was an asshole. Snape would not be the character he is without being an asshole. Its needed for character development in a 7 book series in my opinion.

I read so much as a teenager and learned so much from books written then and hundreds of years ago. The idea children should be shielded from all kinds of views is just wrong. However each parent can decide. Some will only allow books which they religion or cult allows etc.

It is one issue with children learning from home as some religions do not allow any electronic devices so the children need material printed out and sent home as plenty of parents even ban TV never mind computers and also prohibit library visits and tear pages out of biology books and the like.

Flowers In The Attic may have been atrociously written but it really wasn't children's or yp fiction.

Well Bridget Jones's Diary wasn't aimed at teens either, but many teen girls my age read it. Luckily we didn't actually think the only type of men we should aim for are posh fuck-boys or posh-but-emotionally-dead-inside fuckwits (though I did fancy the pants off Colin Firth playing Mark Darcy). I dont think any young woman thinks Bridget was or is 'goals', bar having a mortgaged 2 bed flat in London by your early 30s and still manage to afford to fag/booze it on a daily bases....

I think people forget that these characters are teenagers. Ron is a typical teenage boy who is insecure, sometimes mean and insensitive. He is also loyal and he stands up for Hermione when others upset her. Ron also has a habit of checking Hermione is eating and sleeping enough when she studies. I think it is unfair to call him a dick who doesn't deserve Hermione.

Hermione herself is critical of everyone and bitchy about girls like Lavender or Fleur. Also, attacking Ron with canaries when he kissed Lavender was not a healthy way to handle the situation. If Ron had done that at the Yule Ball, people would be calling him abusive, but Hermione seems to get away with it.

I also enjoyed this sort of criticism and I think this is an interesting area of study. Someone has written a book called the sociology of Harry Potter which would be interesting but the article did wind me up because the author started talking about her fan fiction and blaming JKR for promoting abuse.

I really enjoyed the Bridget Jones documentary. Helen Fielding was talking about how attitudes have changed since she wrote the first book and Daniel Cleaver would be done for sexual harassment now. Candice Carty Williams was on talking about how Bridget Jones was one of her influences which if you have read Queenie you can see but it is also a response to it as you think it is going to be one type of book but then it turns out to be another.

If that's true, I can only suppose many MN readers lives have been blighted by the story of Heathcliff and Cathy. Not to mention Bambi, and Dickens.

As for Enid Blyton; her Famous Five portrayal of a girl called George is entirely responsible for the modern trend of gender dysphoria. I blame Hannibal Lecter for my interest in cookery and brainy people.

Fiction will surely blight your childrens lives and relationships, but it's easily avoided by keeping them off school to make sure they never learn to read. .

@2bazookas, I vaguely recall there was a moral panic, possibly in c18th if not earlier that prose novels would corrupt the youth, and possibly adult women too. They wanted to avoid the blighting you've correctly identified. Before that, I recall Socrates though writing itself was harmful to memory.

It's a good thing there's TV and cinema to fall back on, now it's clear prose novels are corrupting.

RenegadeMrs
Voldemort was evil. Ron (and the others at times) was an asshole. Snape would not be the character he is without being an asshole. Its needed for character development in a 7 book series in my opinion

You have a very narrow definition of arsehole that excludes a lot of people in HP!

No one has said the book can’t have arseholee in it.

@Siablue, that was the impression I'd developed though didn't want to presume this was the case as I could have missed the JKR-esque pile on. Less said about PP's apparent/likely refusal to be edited the better

@VinterKvinna

Is a Ron / Hermione a relationship goal for anyone though?

I always thought it was almost an after thought, and tidying of loose ends

I read an interview somewhere where JK said she admitted regretting that pairing-that she stuck with it because it was her original plan from the start but the story evolved it was clear that it wasn't right...

I agree re tidying the loose ends.

@MorrisZapp

Ffs why does a book series written in the 90s have to be picked apart and deconstructed to this tedious degree? Answer, because it was so stratospherically successful.

Imagine writing fiction for young people now, having to meticulously represent every community favourably and have every character recognisably good or bad in case you accidentally become the biggest selling author of all time and personally responsible for the happiness and mental wellbeing of your readership.

This!!

He was criticised for allowing Lyra and Will to sleep together at the end of his dark materials snd there is a very cringey section in the book of dust were he goes on at length about how although they slept together they did not have sex.

They were only about 12! I never read it as literal sex, it was about the first time you see and respond to somebody in an adult way (rather than child/adult or child/child) wasn't it? A changing of dynamics.

@PolkadotsAndMoonbeams, but wouldn't the allusion to Eve and the plot-line around original sin have required more than co-sleeping? I only vaguely recall and the Books of Dust drove all of the content into a sub-basement of grimness so I could be mis-remembering.

The books are set in a school full of teenagers- how realistic would it have been for the characters to always treat each other with respect, empathy & understanding???

This is madness.

**Or you know we could just let our kids read books then have conversations with them in real life about boundaries and healthy ways to deal with conflict. I bet you a million pounds that those who pontificate about JKR characterisation of the children in her books are not always good role models themselves when it comes to dealing with conflict and emotion.

How are we going to raise critical thinkers if we stop our kids from reading anything and everything that does not adhere to today's moral codes?

No one said stop reading but surely what the op is doing is literally being a critical thinker?

As usual the woke are viewing children as mini adults, rather than children. Just like the woke think kids should be able to decide to mutilate their bodies at 13, or they should be taught about anal sex at 12, their self absorbed self righteous right onness assumes that kids in a book written 20 odd years ago should display perfect adult virtue as according to this week’s standards of moral purity.

I know each generation thinks the younger generation are knobheads, but god I’d dread to think we were ever so unbearably up our own fundaments as this current younger generation of sanctimonious, glass jawed clone dolls. Even the very very special are tediously predictable.

They’re just looking for any reason to have a go at JK. Well wokescolds, that moral high horse of yours is very tall, and you’re all very very fragile, so you’re going to make one hell of a mess when you fall off. Don’t be expecting the people you slag off to be their with the dustpan and brush to sweep up all your broken shards when you do.