Emotional abuse in Harry Potter

[MrsRogerLima]

Don't get me wrong, I love Harry Potter but I never thought about the Ron/Hermione thing this way before and she is SO RIGHT.

AIBU to think this is irresponsible in children's literature?

www.bustle.com/articles/198364-ron-hermiones-relationship-in-harry-potter-wasnt-just-disappointing-but-dangerous

What a load of bollocks.

If all characters in all books were perfect and had perfect relationships there would be no interesting storyline and the plot would be non-existent.

These are books about adolescent teenagers growing up in a magical world. As in every other book, film or whatever, there are goodies and baddies, with no perfect characters. There would be no story otherwise.

Many of the characters in the HP books are teenagers. They are therefore suitably immature and can often behave like gits to each other. Precious few teenagers have never behaved like gits, to be honest. Adults too sometimes. Nobody is perfect.

Look at some of the pretty ancient fairy tales. They are pretty dark tales really, and if you remove some of the Disney type of shine that has been put on them they could easily be termed abuse.

Hansel and Gretel could be considered a tale of child neglect and abuse. It is exactly that. Likewise stuff like the treatment of Cinderella by her stepmother.

It is how stories are made.

Using woke as an insult is really unimpressive. It reminds me of those tiresome men who do the same with 'feminism'.

It comes across to me that Ron's emotionally stunted. And it does remind me quite a bit of the boys I grew up with. Teen boys were bloody awful at times and have to say I was floored when a couple later admitted to liking me. I couldn't understand it as they had been vile in school so why on earth would I want to be near them 🤷‍♀️

Are you saying that all relationships in books should be 100% healthy ones? That all characters who do bad things sometimes are inherently bad people? It's all very black & white to write like that, and would be extremely boring to read! All books throughout time (Jane Eyre, Pride & Prejudice, Vanity Fair etc) have included romances which wouldn't be considered 'healthy' in 2020 but should only perfect relationships be written about?

Doesn’t anyone else think that it’s IMPORTANT that books for children portray unhealthy relationships as well as healthy ones? Children shouldn’t be entering their teen years with only a mental picture perfect relationships. Books are a useful way to start a conversation with your kids in a lighthearted way - “really? When I read them I wanted Harry to end up with Luna because....” etc. It gives you an opening to talk to your preteen about difficult things.

[quote coldwaterfeed]@SebastianTheCrab

What I find remarkable about the younger generation of HP obsessive is they seem to absolutely resent the fact that JKR wrote the books - they want ownership over the series and bash her at every opportunity

That’s nuts! Do you have some particularly egregious examples? I could do with a laugh.[/quote]

Here's a few:

https://wegotthiscovered.com/movies/harry-potter-fans-pretend-daniel-radcliffe-wrote-series/

https://www.insider.com/jk-rowling-terf-britney-spears-hatsune-miku-wrote-harry-potter-2020-6

Oh and all the fan fiction @coldwaterfeed

Ah - would have been so much more interesting if she did support JKR's stance

To Mumsnet maybe! Luckily her tutor couldn't care less what dd thinks about JKRs politics and it's irrelevant as far as her EPQ goes.

Let's only allow children to read nice books where everybody is lovely to one another all the time.

I'm no Harry Potter fan but this argument is ridiculous.

isis1981uk
Agree. Some of the most interesting and thought provoking books are about flawed relationships, and are a good opportunity to discuss and think about the issues raised. The book, Normal People by Sally Rooney I felt showed really unhealthy relationships, where people made mistakes and sadly treated people badly. It proved a good opportunity to discuss, how we treat people and what makes a healthy relationship, with my teenage son.

.

Wtaf??? Is this another let’s stick the knife into JK Rowling for being a strong successful woman? How can we do this best? By taking the strong intelligent woman/girl in the book and reducing her to a victim? The people who are touting this drivel want us to see Hermione as a victim rather than a strong woman because we can’t have that can we?

@MrsRogerLima

See, I do remember thinking as a young person (I read harry potter at the age of 19/20ish) 'he loves her really' even though he was downright nasty to her. For me it reinforced what I had seen at home and validated the way I treated boyfriends at the time (grew up eventually thankfully)

I do think its a bit scary that the heroine we are supposed to look up to and want to emulate ends up with an emotional abuser.

It reinforced what you had seen at home But you think that it's JK Rowling's fault you treated boys the way you did. Don't you think that what you saw when you were growing up will have had more of an effect on you. As a pp said, just another stick to beat JKR. More fool you Op for buying into the toxic bullying culture.

@Ihatefish

Wtaf??? Is this another let’s stick the knife into JK Rowling for being a strong successful woman? How can we do this best? By taking the strong intelligent woman/girl in the book and reducing her to a victim? The people who are touting this drivel want us to see Hermione as a victim rather than a strong woman because we can’t have that can we?

Hermione is a wasted character. She's a swot, she's spiteful, she's there totally to enable Harry, Ron and whatever bloke is around. She could have been an amazing character but she never has an opportunity to tell her own story. I hope another author does it one day.

@MichelleScarn

Sorry OP at 20 you were taking relationship guidance from Harry Potter?

Whether JKR does or doesn't have abuse in her history , the relationships are light hearted storylines to pad out the story. Emotional abuse. I've heard it all now. For the majority of the series they are children!

They're books for kids. They weren't intended to be great literature. The only reason young people are endlessly, boringly, dissecting JKR's every word is because she has been utterly demonised.

I do wonder how some of these super sensitive young people will cope in the real world.

@alittleprivacy

I watched Jane the Virgin recently. It's lauded as being great by all the woke people I know. I couldn't actually finish watching the final series as before it was halfway through, the relationship that was clearly going to be shown as Jane's true love was showing red flags of emotional abuse all over. It was absolutely fucking awful. I don't want to give anything away, but all of the characters find themselves in a situation that would be emotional torture most especially Jane. But a certain male character very quickly forgets all about how insanely impossible a situation she is in. Rather than wallow in his pain (which would be understandable) he gets angry at her and just punishes her and punishes her for how hard she is finding everything, making an already awful situation into pure torture.

I stopped watching, but I did read a review of the last episode and it's confirmed that she marries him. The happily ever after of this super feminist series is our hero marrying a clear emotional abuser and big fucking baby who is the only person who's feelings count. Women in utterly horrendous marriages, that the author has written but can't see, is an absolute staple of fiction.

God yes I remember that storyline thinking 'omg stop being such a self absorbed prick'!

@unmarkedbythat

Using woke as an insult is really unimpressive. It reminds me of those tiresome men who do the same with 'feminism'.

I think "woke" being used this way was inevitable. By calling yourself "woke" you come across as saying you're more enlightened than other people.

By calling yourself "woke" you come across as saying you're more enlightened than other people.

Exactly, there's no positive way of describing yourself as 'woke' without coming over as a 'better than thou' sort of person. See also 'I'm an ally of x group'. So pretentious.

@CautiousOptimist

Of course Ron was a git as a teenager, lots of teenagers are and he had deep-rooted family issues because Molly wanted a girl.

But as a character he saved himself for me during the Malfoy Manor scene where he was in the cellar listening to Hermione being tortured and lost it basically. He adores her. Of course he’s punching above, but so what.

This.

@Clymene

They're books for kids. They weren't intended to be great literature. The only reason young people are endlessly, boringly, dissecting JKR's every word is because she has been utterly demonised.

I do wonder how some of these super sensitive young people will cope in the real world.

This isn't true - phillip pullmans novels get the same treatment and he's not at all GC

You must be fun at parties op.. jeez. Give it a rest

@MrsMiaWallis, really? I've not see the actors nor the public pile on for Philip pullman like JKR though I could have missed it when I lost the will to live in the Books of Dust.

All the Ron hate is stressing me out more than it should. I blame the films for butchering his character and making him comic relief. There were so many great book Ron moments that were changed, not included or even given to Hermione. She was the screenwriter's favourite and it shows. They made her into a perfect Mary Sue.

I speak as someone who loves book Ron and book Hermione equally. The way they were handled in the films was awful.

[quote Zilla1]@MrsMiaWallis, really? I've not see the actors nor the public pile on for Philip pullman like JKR though I could have missed it when I lost the will to live in the Books of Dust.[/quote]
Phillip Pullman has made almost exactly the same points JKR made about children transitioning a few years before she did. No one has piled on him. He said he was going to sign the letter supporting her and backtracked when he got criticised for it.

He was criticised for allowing Lyra and Will to sleep together at the end of his dark materials snd there is a very cringey section in the book of dust were he goes on at length about how although they slept together they did not have sex. He likes to think he is a brave champion of free speech but he is more of a coward than he wants to be.

There are lots of very unhealthy relationships in teen fiction. Hermione snd Ron is one of the least worst. Twilight is awful he is so controlling and I had managed to remove flowers in the attic from my brain before this thread.