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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Emotional abuse in Harry Potter

516 replies

MrsRogerLima · 29/12/2020 08:58

Don't get me wrong, I love Harry Potter but I never thought about the Ron/Hermione thing this way before and she is SO RIGHT.

AIBU to think this is irresponsible in children's literature?

www.bustle.com/articles/198364-ron-hermiones-relationship-in-harry-potter-wasnt-just-disappointing-but-dangerous

OP posts:
MorrisZapp · 29/12/2020 09:27

Ffs why does a book series written in the 90s have to be picked apart and deconstructed to this tedious degree? Answer, because it was so stratospherically successful.

Imagine writing fiction for young people now, having to meticulously represent every community favourably and have every character recognisably good or bad in case you accidentally become the biggest selling author of all time and personally responsible for the happiness and mental wellbeing of your readership.

OppsUpsSide · 29/12/2020 09:27

I don’t get her point about the cursed child, highly unlikely given Ron’s character that he and Hermione would have had a pleasant divorce and now be happily co-parenting, she has acknowledged the dynamic/personalities and followed it through naturally.

BertieBotts · 29/12/2020 09:27

I read this article and it really annoyed me. The author is mostly right, but they have missed a huge chunk of context!

First of all JKR wrote the first few books while in, or directly recovering from, an abusive relationship. Usually if you've had that experience, it is all tied up in unhealthy relationship beliefs, unhealthy beliefs about what "all men" are like, human nature, male/female nature and so on. When I look back at various bits of creative writing I did back when I had those kinds of beliefs myself, I cringe at how I portrayed normal/acceptable relationships - it really speaks volumes. JKR is human, she has human experiences, she is not perfect.

Secondly, she didn't write Cursed Child. So there would be no reason/scope for her to change the character of Ron, or include a divorce storyline, because it wasn't her story, it just took place in her world. And the plot of the Cursed Child was about something totally different so it wouldn't make sense for R &H to have a little background plot of divorce procedures, it would be distracting from the story the playwright wanted to tell.

Thirdly, just because her book is popular among adolescents, does it have to be a perfect educational resource with everyone behaving in a way we'd ideally like to emulate? That is a ridiculous assertation and one that would make literature bland in the extreme.

If you read her more recent books such at the Cormoran Strike series, you can see there's been an incredible amount of growth and development in terms of her understanding of relationship nuance. (Without wanting to give spoilers) she manages to portray characters going through and moving on from unhealthy relationships in a very believable and relatable way.

Should we talk about Ron and Hermione's relationship? YES! Should the books have been written differently? Absolutely not.

PlanDeRaccordement · 29/12/2020 09:28

Fiction isn’t meant to only represent utopias. It would get really boring if it only portrayed perfect heroes and heroines and relationships. YABU to think that such a standard should apply to fiction.

Notonthestairs · 29/12/2020 09:28

Yes this reads like another stick to beat JKR with. Are there any other children's authors you want to point the finger at Op?

By all means read books critically but they aren't your stories and neither the story nor the writer have to reflect your views.

Helmetbymidnight · 29/12/2020 09:29

the world of young adult publishing is absolutely brutal, especially in the US. one false step and you lose your contract- so easy to become a pariah now.

GreyMary23 · 29/12/2020 09:29

Never even crossed my mind that it was abusive at the time. I read it more like a young teenager struggling to accept he had feelings for his friend and not knowing how to approach it in a sensitive way due to age and lack of experience...

mocktail · 29/12/2020 09:30

I don't think the relationship was an afterthought. Even by book 4 and 5 there are lots of hints that Ron fancies Hermione, but it's all covered up by meanness and spiteful comments. It's true it's not a model of a healthy relationship. I haven't read the final two books yet though so I'm not sure how it changes after that.

mocktail · 29/12/2020 09:31

I don't blame JK Rowling by the way, but would be interested in her take on it.

Jollibeezus · 29/12/2020 09:32

Good luck trying to suggest JKR is anything but perfect on here OP Grin

SchrodingersImmigrant · 29/12/2020 09:32

We should bring back pre disney versions of stories for kids. Now that would be something people could get concerned about.

Do you know why you never thought the relationship dynamic may have been wrong?
Because it's made up!

AcornsVsBcorns · 29/12/2020 09:33

The whole article is tommyrot.

Literature is filled to the brim with relationships that are not especially healthy. This author just targetted HP for the clicks.

mocktail · 29/12/2020 09:33

Do you know why you never thought the relationship dynamic may have been wrong?
Because it's made up!

So nothing fictional can ever be harmful?

MrsRogerLima · 29/12/2020 09:34

@notonthestairs no, this happens to be the article I read. Being interested in HP and all.

OP posts:
CoolCatTaco · 29/12/2020 09:34

Get a grip ffs! The character at times is mean, selfish, emotionally immature & jealous because he's a teenager! He's a dick a times and the book doesn't try to justify that. All the characters are flawed...I love Hermione, but at times she's an insufferable know it all!
The more worrying abuse as mentioned upthread is the Dursley's treatment of Harry & that no one in either the Muggle or Wizarding world steps in. I could never process Dumbledore allowing that, put me off him a bit.

Riojasmoothy · 29/12/2020 09:34

I think a lot of people need to learn the difference between a work of fiction and a self-help book.
J.K. Rowling is a talented author of books of fiction. If she was entitling her work "A guide to life for 12 years olds" then I could see the problem.
Books, television, films etc. are a way for children teens and adults to experience and process emotion in a safe way. If we protect our children from feeling anything that us uncomfortable or unpleasant, then how do they learn to cope with emotion in the real world?
Even programmes for pre school children portray emotions like shame, embarrassment, teasing etc.
This ridiculous idea of "cancel culture" is far more harmful than anything you will find on amazon books.

donquixotedelamancha · 29/12/2020 09:35

To save others from wasting time, the examples of 'emotional abuse' from the article are:

  • He makes her cry when they first meet, aged 11.
  • He's a sulky git (and dates someone else) when she dates someone else at 14ish.
  • He's a knobhead while possessed by an evil magic artefact.

There is a great discussion to be had about unhealthy relationship expectations caused by fiction but why, FFS, would HP feature highly?

She's cleverer than him but he's kind and loyal. She rescues him more than the other way around. They are both emotionally illiterate because they are children but they grow and learn rather than just being Mary-Sues or empty sidekicks for the hero.

Doesn't JK have domestic abuse in her relationship history?

Yeah right. That's why she writes a teenage boy as a bit of a dick sometimes.

EnjoyingTheSilence · 29/12/2020 09:36

No ones perfect ffs but this constant bashing is very boring

SchrodingersImmigrant · 29/12/2020 09:38

@mocktail

*Do you know why you never thought the relationship dynamic may have been wrong? Because it's made up!*

So nothing fictional can ever be harmful?

Not really much for people. I mean, do you know a harmful fictional book? Like actual proven harm?
IamTomHanks · 29/12/2020 09:38

Once a book, or really any work of art, gains the cultural traction that Harry Potter has it opens itself up to dissection and discussion about the issues at the time of its writing and what the author was thinking when they wrote it.

Dissecting Harry Potter like this is no different than if someone wrote an essay on Gatsby's relationship with Daisy and how this correlates to modern day toxic masculinity.

Quite sure Fitzgerald never thought of Gatsby in those terms when he was writing the character, but he was a product of his time and it showed in the way he wrote him.

The only difference is that JK is unlucky enough to still be alive to see people dissect her work in this way.

Honestly she and George Lucas could probably start a club....maybe invite G.R.R Martin....

Riojasmoothy · 29/12/2020 09:38

@GreyMary23 exactly!

CandyLeBonBon · 29/12/2020 09:39

Blimey op. Whatever you do, don't read American Psycho. You'll turn into a serial killer! Hmm

SomeoneInTheLaaaaaounge · 29/12/2020 09:39

I thought this was a parody on wokeness, instead it’s actual wokeness

KaptainKaveman · 29/12/2020 09:40

Literature has its fair share of dreadful women as well. I don't see anyone here calling out Lady Macbeth on her commitment to "dash the brains out" of her suckling babe; and what about Cathy Ames in East of Eden? and too many others to mention?

OP if you really want to recalibrate your understanding of childrens' fiction I suggest you go back to the fairy stories of the Grimm brothers and HCA; full of wicked parents, abusive relationships and so on.

ShesMadeATwatOfMePam · 29/12/2020 09:41

Hermione never struck me as someone who was particularly secure or confident in herself. Yes she would speak up when it was about stuff she knew but when it came up standing up to other people she was terrible at it. So it's not hard to see why she hung around with two loser boys who were nowhere near deserving of her loyalty.