Page 12 | Emotional abuse in Harry Potter

MrsRogerLima · 2020-12-29T08:58:32+00:00

Don't get me wrong, I love Harry Potter but I never thought about the Ron/Hermione thing this way before and she is SO RIGHT. AIBU to think this is irresponsible in children's literature? [[https://www.bustle.com/articles/198364-ron-hermiones-relationship-in-harry-potter-wasnt-just-disappointing-but-dangerous]]

PolkadotsAndMoonbeams · 29/12/2020 15:02

Zilla, I suppose I didn't think it had to be quite as literal as that. After all, in Narnia, a bit of lipstick and thinking about boys was enough! I thought it was the change in attitude that was the important bit, rather than the actual act. (Although you do get those people who think anal sex isn't losing your virginity, so there's obviously great variance in where the line gets drawn!)

Going back to Harry Potter, I don't think there's any harm in exploring the relationships a bit further if you want to, but saying they shouldn't have been written because they set a bad example is a really ridiculous position to take.

Zilla1 · 29/12/2020 15:12

@PolkadotsAndMoonbeams, true and I agree about Aslan's reported opinion of Susan (perhaps he was more liberal than CS Lewis thought) though if your stakes are (my poorly-remembered) original sin and Eve ......

herecomesthsun · 29/12/2020 15:15

@PolkadotsAndMoonbeams

He was criticised for allowing Lyra and Will to sleep together at the end of his dark materials snd there is a very cringey section in the book of dust were he goes on at length about how although they slept together they did not have sex.

They were only about 12! I never read it as literal sex, it was about the first time you see and respond to somebody in an adult way (rather than child/adult or child/child) wasn't it? A changing of dynamics.

I find the PP universe interesting but barren and fragmented compared with JKR. Her writing is a bit inelegant at times but there are deep themes around the nature of friendship, loyalty, bereavement, how it is difficult to do the right thing because in a complicated world you have to work out what is right. And the characters and their backstories have some depth and coherence even in a magical universe.

Tryingandfailing39 · 29/12/2020 15:17

What a crock of shit!

ChestnutStuffing · 29/12/2020 15:26

@AcornsVsBcorns

The whole article is tommyrot.

Literature is filled to the brim with relationships that are not especially healthy. This author just targetted HP for the clicks.

I don't think it's just JKR that is being treated this way, though. People seem to expect every book to be full of perfect relationships. Or if somoene behaves less than perfectly, they need to be exposed as a baddy later in the story, and they can't have any other redeeming qualities.

I watched an older series on tv the other day, and it was so refreshing. Lots of the characters were imperfect. A few did some really bad things, one in particular. And yet he still had some really good qualities, and, most of all, the show seemed to feel no need to tell us what to think of him.

LastTrainEast · 29/12/2020 15:56

I'm a bit worried about the Story of the Three Little Pigs. It rather rigidly portrays wolves as 'bad' which is specist and bigoted.

It begins with a mother evicting her offspring unprepared for the world and while it doesn't mention their age I think social services ought to be involved.

It's rather unfair in the way it has two of the pigs killed and eaten (in a story aimed at children) and in a remarkable display of victim blaming suggests that their lack of building skills and laziness led to their demise.

Think what this could do to the self esteem of young people who have never built even a dog house.

What do we know about these two pigs? Did they have any kind of disability which might have held them back? Should we be measuring success by building skills at all? Surely there's more to life than bricklaying?

BigFatLiar · 29/12/2020 16:37

[quote Jollibeezus]@BigFatLiar sorry pressed post too soon. I always thought that part of literary criticism was to observe what social mores were evident in a particular piece of work, not necessarily for comparison, but as a reflection. Maybe I’m wrong, but it would be a shame not to discuss books and their ideas[/quote]
I think books are written as stories, entertainment. I suspect jkr (and other authors) sat down to write an entertaining story that would make her some money. I doubt many sit down to write a commentary on modern social values. If you start taking HP apart you can get views on how the different characters are but these are often coloured by our own opinions.

I think the main benefit of analysing books isn't whether or not the analysis of fictional characters in a fictional world are valid but how well you argue your case. Some see the emotional abuse of Hermoine, some see her as manipulating Harry and Ron to up her standing in the social order, some see three kids having an adventure.

NoNarniaBecauseLipstick · 29/12/2020 16:48

Well, without all the in-depth worrying about it, I actually don’t think Hermione and Ron should have ended up together. For a teenage romance it was fine, but I don’t think they would have been compatible long term.

I say this without in any way denigrating JKR. I think she is great.

Itsnotlikethiswithotherpeople · 29/12/2020 16:54

Ron is portrayed badly for how he treats H. He isn’t lauded as some romantic prince. He’s shown as a grumpy teen with family of origin issues. She isn’t character flaw free either. Not every relationship is meant to be aspirational. I don’t think it’s abusive nor is it ideal. Books are meant to reflect real life not depict perfect scenarios and people.

Sewrainbow · 29/12/2020 16:59

It was a convenient ending of a kids' story. A real life person with a character like Hermione, would have shaken off the shackles of childhood friendships, gone away to university met someone new, as intelligent as her and high achieving. Ron needed a different character of partner to make him feel more secure in life and adulthood. I imagine characters like theirs would end up resenting each other in real life.

WhatAreYouDoingInMySwamp · 29/12/2020 17:03

Great stuff.

Even more reason to dislike and ignore anything that JK says ever again :)

TeddysTigerEyes · 29/12/2020 17:06

I’ve quite enjoyed this thread, I thought it was going to be another “how terrible is JKR” thread. I think I read these in my mid twenties, when you could get them with a grown up jacket so you didn’t get laughed at on the tube. I have read them again with DS 7. He loves Ron because he swears and my niece thinks Hermione is a super brain kick ass heroine. Neither of them seems to see a subtext of abusive relationship behaviours. It’s very important to show children both good examples and bad throughout their lives and help them to make their own minds up. Best of all lead by example and ensure they understand the meaning of fiction and to definitely question what they are seeing and reading.

Skysblue · 29/12/2020 17:10

JK wrote about kids how they are, not some boring preachy idealised version of how they should be. (The books would have been a lot less popular if she’d done the latter.)

Most teenage boys aren’t very nice to teenage girls, especially clever ones, and it’s ok that JK depicted that. Perhaps it is a bit depressing that Hermonie married Ron, but again she is being realistic. Nice girls fall for tossers all the time.

JK has been in an abusive relationship and modelled the character of Hermonie on herself, so it’s not a big surprise that Hermonie’s relationship wasn’t great.

I hate it that this article was written, because it is part of a systematic and very deliberate campaign to bash JK in the media whenever possible and damage her legacy.

The fact is, JK is a literary genius, the most successful woman who’s ever lived, and has given a huge amount of money and energy to charity, especially helping children.

I think she is amazing and I have no respect for people who write articles - or mumsnet threads - trying to damage her legacy.

If you don’t like Harry Potter go write a better book. Good luck with that.

MrsMiaWallis · 29/12/2020 17:11

I think she is amazing and I have no respect for people who write articles - or mumsnet threads - trying to damage her legacy

That is a bit cringeworthy.

Wheresmykimchi · 29/12/2020 17:15

@Skysblue

JK wrote about kids how they are, not some boring preachy idealised version of how they should be. (The books would have been a lot less popular if she’d done the latter.)

Most teenage boys aren’t very nice to teenage girls, especially clever ones, and it’s ok that JK depicted that. Perhaps it is a bit depressing that Hermonie married Ron, but again she is being realistic. Nice girls fall for tossers all the time.

JK has been in an abusive relationship and modelled the character of Hermonie on herself, so it’s not a big surprise that Hermonie’s relationship wasn’t great.

I hate it that this article was written, because it is part of a systematic and very deliberate campaign to bash JK in the media whenever possible and damage her legacy.

The fact is, JK is a literary genius, the most successful woman who’s ever lived, and has given a huge amount of money and energy to charity, especially helping children.

I think she is amazing and I have no respect for people who write articles - or mumsnet threads - trying to damage her legacy.

If you don’t like Harry Potter go write a better book. Good luck with that.

There is no abusive relationship between Hermione and Ron.

Thewithesarehere · 29/12/2020 17:17

There is an organised campaign against Rowling right now. This thread is a living proof of this.

Thewithesarehere · 29/12/2020 17:18

@MrsMiaWallis

I think she is amazing and I have no respect for people who write articles - or mumsnet threads - trying to damage her legacy

That is a bit cringeworthy.

Why is it cringeworthy?

MrsMiaWallis · 29/12/2020 17:21

Because they are books and characters that people are perfectly free to criticise and read into whatever they like. Some people love the books but hate JKRs politics and that's absolutely ok.

Thewithesarehere · 29/12/2020 17:22

@MrsMiaWallis

Because they are books and characters that people are perfectly free to criticise and read into whatever they like. Some people love the books but hate JKRs politics and that's absolutely ok.

This thread is clearly about her books though, isn’t it?

DimidDavilby · 29/12/2020 17:26

Deeply unfeminist texts, I will not be reading them to my daughter. Herminone is the classic "bossy" girl so loved by children's book authors of the older generations. Sexist shite.

ktp100 · 29/12/2020 17:26

So. Much. Bollox!!

This is utter shite from start to finish.

Rowling didn't write Cursed Child, she just approved it (as she has to with all Potter projects).

Talk about overthinking.

Porcupineintherough · 29/12/2020 17:26

I always thought the sniping bw Ron and Hermione was pretty balanced tbh. I thought they portrayed teenage romance quite believably, not convinced they'd have ended up together but.

BrumBoo · 29/12/2020 17:29

@MrsMiaWallis

Because they are books and characters that people are perfectly free to criticise and read into whatever they like. Some people love the books but hate JKRs politics and that's absolutely ok.

Not quite sure what of her 'politics' there are to hate. Last I checked, she was a children's author not a politician.

Chanjer · 29/12/2020 17:31

Fair to say that if you're treating a series of books about a fucking wizard as a life manual then you're probably in for a tough time anyway

MrsMiaWallis · 29/12/2020 17:33

Not quite sure what of her 'politics' there are to hate. Last I checked, she was a children's author not a politician

Her views on gender then if you need it spelled out.