Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

3 yo wakes for the day at 2/3 am. Fucking hate my life

171 replies

HateLife21 · 29/12/2020 05:27

DC3 has ASD. Always been a shit sleeper. Only sleeps for 6-7 hours max per night. Doesn't nap. Last few weeks has been exhausted and asleep by 7.30. Then wide awake by 2.15 am. Might go back to sleep after 6 until about 8.30. That's it. We co-sleep as they get so distressed about being alone they vomit. Tonight has been violently rocking on the bed since 3am. (Gave Calpol and milk at 2.30 in the hope they'd settle).

I can't do this anymore. I hate my life. I really resent DC. Biggest regret of my life having them.

Not sure what my AIBU is, sorry. Just can't go on.

OP posts:
EffYouSeeKaye · 29/12/2020 21:51

@MrsKoala

Obviously if I allowed this bedtime would be after midnight.

Would this be a bad thing? How long would he sleep if he went at midnight? What time do the other children go to sleep?

I had similar with ds2 and dd. If they went to bed before 10pm they’d be up at 2-3am and then fall back asleep at 6am. So I stopped trying to get them to bed early, allowed late naps and we all went to bed together (co sleeping) at midnight and I at least got a solid chunk of 5-6 hours, which was way better than 3 smaller chunks of 2 hours then being woken.

We also use tablets/films in the bed if they wake now (dd does still about once a week).

I also had 4hr naps at weekends while h had them. It is horrible. I stopped driving as I was so tired I was scared of causing an accident. I had to have an mri as the symptoms were similar to that of MS.

I agree and thought the same when I read your post. I’d prefer a midnight - 6am night than a 8pm - 2am night.

Good luck op, I hope you find a way forward Flowers

rookgizzardpie · 29/12/2020 21:58

I really feel for you OP, there’s nothing quite like sleep deprivation. Hope you find a solution

napody · 29/12/2020 21:59

@mygrandchildrenrock

If he has a late afternoon nap and then doesn’t go to bed until midnight, does he then sleep until 7am? If so, that is what I would do. That way, although you get no evening without children you do get a decent night’s sleep.
I was going to suggest the same in the hope that it 'resets' the cycle...then phase out/shorten the nap so you get a late-ish bedtime established.

And could you give the melatonin at midnight then as it's the beginning of their 'long' sleep (cringed writing that, you are doing so well surviving at all on so little)

Really sorry if the suggestion not helpful- I really hope something somebody has suggested works Flowers

Fannydango · 29/12/2020 22:13

Just spotted you said you have to be careful they don't take themselves off for a nap at 5pm - what would happen if they did go for a nap at 5pm? Have you ever let them just sleep at that time to see how long they slept - ie is there a chance they could sleep through the night from that time?

I know I've already said this in my earlier post and I seem to be going against all other PPs' advice but I really think a really early bedtime is at least worth considering. I can't stress enough how much overtiredness screws up babies' and kids' sleep because it pumps them full of adrenaline and causes nightwakings and early wake ups because they just can't settle and relax properly. Keeping them up even later as some other people have suggested will just make them even more exhausted and almost certainly guarantee bad sleep- you've said yourself they're exhausted? As the saying goes, sleep begets sleep. Some super early bedtimes might help them to get some proper rest meaning they are much more able to go to sleep better the next day and stay asleep and so on. I know a 5/6pm bedtime sounds absolutely nuts but if they're up all hours anyway at the moment and starting their day at 3am, it surely can't get much worse.

I'll stop banging on now!Grin and send you lots of luck and sympathy.

napody · 30/12/2020 14:26

Fannydango yes the earlier bedtime to avoid over tiredness is well worth a try too...we found that worked for a toddler but I have no experience with parenting a child with asd. It must be so hard not knowing whether any of these many suggestions will help or not....the thinking about all the possibilities is exhausting on top of the sleep deprivation.

MrsKoala · 31/12/2020 16:19

@Fannydango

Just spotted you said you have to be careful they don't take themselves off for a nap at 5pm - what would happen if they did go for a nap at 5pm? Have you ever let them just sleep at that time to see how long they slept - ie is there a chance they could sleep through the night from that time?

I know I've already said this in my earlier post and I seem to be going against all other PPs' advice but I really think a really early bedtime is at least worth considering. I can't stress enough how much overtiredness screws up babies' and kids' sleep because it pumps them full of adrenaline and causes nightwakings and early wake ups because they just can't settle and relax properly. Keeping them up even later as some other people have suggested will just make them even more exhausted and almost certainly guarantee bad sleep- you've said yourself they're exhausted? As the saying goes, sleep begets sleep. Some super early bedtimes might help them to get some proper rest meaning they are much more able to go to sleep better the next day and stay asleep and so on. I know a 5/6pm bedtime sounds absolutely nuts but if they're up all hours anyway at the moment and starting their day at 3am, it surely can't get much worse.

I'll stop banging on now!Grin and send you lots of luck and sympathy.

I think that approach often works for neurotypical kids, but I’ve found it hasn’t worked for my kids with ASD and ADHD. They tend to have a set amount of time their body will sleep in 24 hours and can’t deviate from that. Which is why I chose 12-6am over waking at 2am.

Both H and I absolutely prioritised sleep over everything else. So if they went down at 8pm we stopped whatever we were doing immediately and went straight to bed. Everything else like eating and cleaning could wait. Because we knew we could be woken at 11pm for 4 hours. We made the mistake a couple of times of trying to enjoy adult evening time, or catching up on chores. It always came back to bite us when we’d only been in bed for 30 mins and the kids woke up. I remember just sobbing and ranting because I’d watched a film one night rather than sleeping. I was so furious with myself.

Original poster
HateLife21 · 31/12/2020 20:14

@MrsKoala We made the mistake a couple of times of trying to enjoy adult evening time, or catching up on chores. It always came back to bite us when we’d only been in bed for 30 mins and the kids woke up. I remember just sobbing and ranting because I’d watched a film one night rather than sleeping. I was so furious with myself

We're both really struggling with this. It's no life.

OP posts:
MrsKoala · 31/12/2020 21:20

I’m so sorry. It really does feel like that. I was totally on my knees and I resented everyone. Dd didn’t sleep longer than 30-90mins for 3 years. I remember crying to h that I regretted having children. I honestly can’t remember 2 years of it - apart from the constant sick feeling of exhaustion.

But its got better for us now (dd is just 4). But only because we stopped fighting it and let the kids go to sleep later. We don’t watch any adult tv together (we watch loads of documentaries on catch up which are suitable for little ears) and go off and watch on iPads if we want to see something unsuitable. It’s a small price to pay tho for more solid sleep. Last night the boys went to sleep at 1am. But slept till 11 - I sleep with them and keep their hours now. Dd slept 11-8 and H co sleeps with her. We always prioritise naps if one of us has had a bad night tho.

cansu · 01/01/2021 17:08

HateLife21 Sorry if you have already responded to this but have you tried any anti histamine medication. We were in a similar position until we had something else to add to the melatonin. I feel for you. My partner and I were literally on our knees. One of us would do the 2am to 5am shift and then the other would take over at about 5 whilst the other went back to bed for a bit. It was intolerable.

Original poster
HateLife21 · 01/01/2021 21:54

Just a little update. We have had 2 days where he napped for an hour at 3pm, I gave melatonin at 10 and he slept til 7! Shock
Unfortunately no nap today, so bedtime was 7. Undoubtedly means a 1 or 2am start 😩. But hopefully we can try and encourage a late, short nap and 10pm bedtime 🤞

In the meantime I've got some magnesium spray, will try and get hold of phenergan to have in reserve for desperate times, and will keep a food and sleep diary. I've had suspicions about gluten before but it might be complete fluke that sleep improves when I cut it out of his diet for a week or two 🤷

OP posts:
Porcupineintherough · 01/01/2021 22:02

I was just coming on to suggest you tried an early nap and a later bedtime and I see you have. Great that it helps. You may have to tweak it a bit but I hope it provides you with the kernel of a solution.

Fannydango · 01/01/2021 23:18

That's fab. Maybe because he was better rested because of the nap, he slept better through the night?

Fannydango · 01/01/2021 23:23

@MrsKoala yep, totally get that it's probably different for non neuro-typical children and I have no experience of that.

But does sound promising that after a nap, OP's child slept much better that night. If be tempted to do very early bedtime on no nap days and normal bedtime when he does have a nap. He's at that age where they start dropping naps altogether anyway and that usually causes a difficult transition where they're not tired enough to nap but too tired to go without it so doing naps on some but not all days can work really well.

MrsKoala · 01/01/2021 23:31

That’s great news. I’d try to encourage a late short nap at 3pm even if it means a car/buggy sleep. Something which would recharge him enough to push past 7pm and make it to 10pm.

On no nap days early bedtimes were a killer for us. They’d pass out at 7pm then wake fully refreshed at 11pm and would be awake till 6. If one of ours went to sleep at 7 we’d decide which one was going to pull the all nighter, then that one would go to bed at 7 too and get up at 11pm. At least they’d get 4 hours! I remember once stopping to do something on the way up the stairs and h shouting ‘GO, JUST GO. YOUVE GOT TO GET TO SLEEP NOW’ in a panicked voice.

I hated the dropping nap years.

MrsKoala · 01/01/2021 23:35

I think I may be confused @Fannydango and @Porcupineintherough I th8nk the op is saying the nap was a later nap, at 3 and then a later bedtime which resulted in a better sleep. Not an earlier nap as op had been trying before and not letting him nap late as he’d be up too late. Is that right op? In which case later naps and later bedtimes sound promising.

Porcupineintherough · 01/01/2021 23:39

Yes sorry, I meant a nap earlier in the day (ie earlier than 7pm) not that the OP should try to move the 3pm nap earlier if that's working.

Fannydango · 02/01/2021 00:36

@MrsKoala yes, a later nap and later bedtime and then on days he doesn't nap, try a really early bedtime. And by early bedtime, I mean much earlier than 7pm. The aim is not for them to be completely exhausted before they go to sleep as that will almost certainly cause restless sleep/night wakings/ early wakeup. Sorry if I'm being confusing!

Blossom4538 · 02/01/2021 00:43

Same thing happening here! Dd age 9 is waking after 2-3hrs sleep and staying awake! No-one will currently prescribe melatonin for us. We got so desperate, we got some from a friend and it hasn’t been great. I have ordered some time-release melatonin online.
Not ideal, but desperate measures.
All her struggles with ASD are a million times worse after so little sleep. I’m not sure we can go on like this to be honest xx

minipie · 02/01/2021 00:59

Glad you’ve had some progress OP.

We used melatonin to get DD to sleep at a sensible hour even if she’d had a nap. She was an early waker too and melatonin did nothing if we gave it in the early hours. BUT it did help her have a “normal” (for her) night even after a nap. So that way she got more sleep overall, and chipped away at her crazy overtiredness. Better behaviour as a result too.

I second the recommendation of magnesium. Topical works better than pills. Epsom salts in the bath are a good way to get magnesium in if he doesn’t like creams/sprays. Fish oils may also help, if you aren’t trying them already.

The other thing DD has always needed is total blackout. Guess you’ve tried that though.

By the way all the Piriton/Phenergan advice is out of date. The under 6 version has changed and no longer has any sedative effect. Medised doesn’t exist any more I believe. For any kind of sedative you’d need a paed.

Original poster
HateLife21 · 02/01/2021 01:26

@MrsKoala

I think I may be confused *@Fannydango and @Porcupineintherough I th8nk the op is saying the nap was a later* nap, at 3 and then a later bedtime which resulted in a better sleep. Not an earlier nap as op had been trying before and not letting him nap late as he’d be up too late. Is that right op? In which case later naps and later bedtimes sound promising.
Yes @MrsKoala, you're absolutely spot on. Here we are, up for the day, yay. Thank you for your replies btw, I can't tell you how much it helps to know we're not alone in this sleep cycle hell. You give me some hope too that it might end one day.
OP posts:
Original poster
HateLife21 · 02/01/2021 01:30

@Blossom4538

Same thing happening here! Dd age 9 is waking after 2-3hrs sleep and staying awake! No-one will currently prescribe melatonin for us. We got so desperate, we got some from a friend and it hasn’t been great. I have ordered some time-release melatonin online. Not ideal, but desperate measures. All her struggles with ASD are a million times worse after so little sleep. I’m not sure we can go on like this to be honest xx
Oh Blossom, I feel for you so much. The lack of sleep is brutal and makes even everyday life hell, without the extra shitness from the ASD challenges. I really hope the long acting melatonin will help Flowers
OP posts:
minipie · 02/01/2021 01:34

Oh jesus poor you OP.

Hope you manage the short nap/later bedtime tomorrow. Personally IME the nap being late wasn’t so important (as long as she was tired enough to nap) but what was key was keeping it fairly short. My DC was awful when woken from nap but TV immediately on wake up helped.

By the way do you know about Guided Access on ipad, it locks the screen and stops them accidentally shutting down the app they are on etc.

Good luck and hope you’ve had a bit of sleep.

RedAdvent · 02/01/2021 01:46

@HateLife21 just to say my DD never slept for more than 90 mins for the first few years. But it has got so much better the older she has got. I was completely against a tv in the bedroom but looking back I should have got one. Things can improve with age Flowers

RedAdvent · 02/01/2021 01:56

Oh and as you can probably tell as I am posting at 2am I now go with it and DD sleeps from around 1am-10.30.

snugglepuff · 02/01/2021 02:11

My ASD DS (5) was a terrible sleeper.
We got him a sturdy U shaped pregnancy pillow where he sleeps with a weighted blanket. It's almost like it locks him in.
Bath with lavender drops every night. Lavender in his scentsy every night. Generous spray of 'This Works Deep Sleep Pillow Spray' around the pillow and blanket.
Chamomile tea and a soothing story before bed.
It works for us maybe 5 nights out of 7