To feel relieved that it’s not a no-deal outcome!

[Xnon]

Whether you’re Remain or Leave the fact is that Brexit is going ahead. I was genuinely scared of a no-deal outcome especially after the weird 2020 we have had.

I don’t know the full details of the deal but I’m just glad that there is a deal rather than no-deal at all. Anyone else feel the same?

Brexit: Boris Johnson hails free trade deal with EU

At least that’s something. I was worried about trading under WTO rules.

Thoughts?

@TerryHearn

You’ll be remoaning in 20 years’ time. I feel really sad for you.

You are going out of your way to be offensive.

Anyway I thought you weren't going to grace us with your presence until tomorrow?

@TerryHearn

You’ll be remoaning in 20 years’ time. I feel really sad for you.

It wouldn’t surprise me if we’d grovelled and pleaded to be allowed back long before 2040.

I voted remain. But it's pointless harping on about it now, however, as that ship has well and truly sailed. All you're doing is giving the likes of @TerryHearn ammunition for calling you 'remoaners'. (However stupid that label might be.)

There isn't even going to be another general election for another four years. At that point, if Brexit has messed up badly enough for the Tories to be voted out, Labour under Keir Starmar may ask to rejoin the EU and call another referendum,

Until then, this deal is definitely the lesser of two evils.

I think this deal is far better than I expected Boris to get. No trade tariffs and no paying into EU coffers. Looks like he sacrificed some fish in short term for good deal on longer term. I think it is good as creates certainly for businesses and also allows UK to do trade deals with other countries. A trade deal with India would be good to get. The EU have been trying to get one since 2007 but those trade talks rumble on and maybe UK can get one quicker.

At that point, if Brexit has messed up badly enough for the Tories to be voted out, Labour under Keir Starmar may ask to rejoin the EU and call another referendum

Surely no-one thinks this is going to happen?!

No, it's as likely as pigs flying, sadly. I was meaning that that is the point to start talking about joining the EU again, not now.

I think the Tories will get in again, but with a different PM. (Although his position is more secure now that he's got the trade deal with the EU.)

Right to work is very different from freedom of movement.

No it isn't. Freedom of movement doesn't mean being able to go on holiday. It is one of the four freedoms of the EU, the right to live, work and do business in any EU country on an equal basis with citizens of that country.

We will have the right to work in the EU

No we won't. We MAY get PERMISSION to work. That's not a right.

@MrsMiaWallis

At that point, if Brexit has messed up badly enough for the Tories to be voted out, Labour under Keir Starmar may ask to rejoin the EU and call another referendum

Surely no-one thinks this is going to happen?!

It could very easily. Why not?

The genie is out of the bottle. Good luck getting it back in.

I can’t bear to read all the detail. I don’t give a fuck about fishing which to me seemed highly symbolic (where was the govt support for all the Debenhams workers who got mad redundant, that number the same as those who work in fishing)? But how badly have we been fucked over in financial services which is utterly crucial to our economy?

Because KS won't get in in 4 years (maybe in 8)
Because he won't campaign for a referendum (presumably he does want to get voted in!)
Because Brexit is going to be fine and most people don't give a shit about things like fishing or Erasmus. That's a shame as the Erasmus programme was a good one, but it benefitted a tiny proportion of predominantly middle class kids.

Because KS won't get in in 4 years (maybe in 8)

I think your crystal ball might be faulty. There’s no guarantee this government will last another four years - we’ve had three elections in the last five years. Who could have predicted the shit we’re in now this time last year? If 2020 has taught us anything it’s just how unpredictable life is. A lot of people, especially younger voters, would definitely find another referendum appealing.

@MrsMiaWallis

Because KS won't get in in 4 years (maybe in 8) Because he won't campaign for a referendum (presumably he does want to get voted in!) Because Brexit is going to be fine and most people don't give a shit about things like fishing or Erasmus. That's a shame as the Erasmus programme was a good one, but it benefitted a tiny proportion of predominantly middle class kids.

KS wont their leader in 9 years time, if they don't win in 4. Agree, he wont. Brexit will be a disaster, it already is, though its amazing how a drop in GDP of 4%, non tariff barriers and the slowest recovery among the G7 is seen as "fine" shows leaver logic. Correct, though once again the hatred of the MC classes by brexitiers is weird, as they pay the taxes that provide the public services and benefits brexitiers need more than anyone else.

Brexit hasn’t happened yet apparently. So how has it already failed?

As for fishing quotas. We don’t have a fleet to speak of after decades of EU membership. We couldn’t take back 100% of our waters overnight and fish them to their potential. We don’t have the boats nor he fishermen. If you actually study the deal we increase our control over a gradual period until we can take back more of them. The government is investing in the fleet.

You can predict the future? Recovery from Covid when we are still fighting Covid? Bravo.

The fishing industry leaders don't view the fishing deal positively. The word I saw them use was 'betrayed'.

@inquietant

The fishing industry leaders don't view the fishing deal positively. The word I saw them use was 'betrayed'.

Union Leader in dismay at government decision.....What a shocking development.

They are not unions, but rather sector bodies representing all levels of the industry.

@inquietant

They are not unions, but rather sector bodies representing all levels of the industry.

Their argument is that they want immediate access to 100% of our waters. We couldn’t fish them. We don’t have the boats or the numbers of fishermen. A genuinely odd approach to view the deal as bad. Genuinely worrying if they are the leaders.

Earlier this year there was an article in the Times of India. Karma calling? Country that used divide-and-rule split over Brexit.

Brexit might be the result of The history of the British Empire is not being taught. "Our education system ignores a difficult and bloody period of our history, leaving us ignorant about our place in the world today." In that sense, it might not actually be peoples' fault if they voted leave with nostalgia and the misguided idea the British Empire might return...

This bit in the article made me laugh: "This sounds like a joke, but I promise that it’s not: it is genuinely possible I learned more about imperialism from Doctor Who than I ever did at school." "Not only don’t we talk about what the British Empire did to the world; we don’t talk about what it did to Britain."

nffo.org.uk/news: How, when on fishing rights the UK held all the cards, did we end up with such a paltry result in the UK/EU negotiations for a future relationship?

UK Fisheries weren't thrilled either, although more restrained in their comments.

Their argument is that they want immediate access to 100% of our waters. We couldn’t fish them. We don’t have the boats or the numbers of fishermen. A genuinely odd approach to view the deal as bad. Genuinely worrying if they are the leaders

So we conserve stocks until we have more boats? however, we do have enough boats to significantly increase our catch... Genuinely worried you don't know this.

@jasjas1973

Their argument is that they want immediate access to 100% of our waters. We couldn’t fish them. We don’t have the boats or the numbers of fishermen. A genuinely odd approach to view the deal as bad. Genuinely worrying if they are the leaders

So we conserve stocks until we have more boats? however, we do have enough boats to significantly increase our catch... Genuinely worried you don't know this.

Genuinely worried for you. We don’t have the means to fish 100% of our waters. So in order to suit your own argument we should conserve fish stocks apparently having won back 100%. I’m worried you can’t see what the government has negotiated. We have back control of more of our waters in a manageable fashion. Over 5 years we increase the size of our fleet (boats and man power) by which point we are ready to take back more of our waters. At the same time the EU feel like we have conceded over the short term and they too can prepare for a further loss of waters in 5 years.

Not blessed with intelligence are you? Remoaner rage prevents you seeing what is happening in front of you.

Except ... there won’t be more control ceded to the UK in 2026. The deal assumes that the status quo achieved by 2026 then continues post 2026. If the UK tries to act unilaterally to withhold access, then it gets hit with EU tariffs.

Johnson’s sold a big fat red herring.

I wish I could agree with @VinylDetective ; it's certainly what I would like to see happen. Unfortunately, history tells us that it takes more than one election for a political party to come back from a disaster like the Labour Party suffered at the last election. It also takes more than one leader; Neil Kinnock worked hard to make the Labour Party electable but he still lost in 1992. It took Tony Blair to lead them to victory.

The Tories had three leaders fail before David Cameron won in 2015 (with help from the Lib Dems).